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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg

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so last week on the para cast Chris did

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we put to rest the possibility that the

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world's gonna end in December because of

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one specific Mayan calendar well it put

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that way yeah I think we did but of

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course the door is still open for all

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sorts of things that could happen

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between now and then I personally think

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it's it's oh god I'm gonna use that term

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I think it's a trickster ish event in

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culture and I think everybody's gonna

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breathe breathe a sigh of relief and

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then something major is gonna happen a

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few months later in 2013 that's my guess

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is that like the horror movie ends when

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they kill the creature everyone goes

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back to their normal lives and then one

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minute later the creature is back final

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kill the creature scene where the it's

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son of the creature comes back I think

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of the movie poltergeist where

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everything was resolved except when it

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wasn't well you know it's a cliffhanger

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well let's hope that we don't have the

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proper cliff-hanging there of course the

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country may go off a cliff between now

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and then because we have the election of

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which the less said the better I think

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in terms of Elections that I've lived

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through this is the craziest campaign

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yet you know and I got a letter from

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somebody who said why are you talking

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about politics on the para cast and I

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said hey we talk about government

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disinformation with regard to UFOs we

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talk about the government engaging in

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mind control tests and things like that

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how do you keep politics out of it it's

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pretty tough I think it's all it's all

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you know connected on some level well it

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started the politics when major Keyhoe

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demanded congressional investigations

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for UFOs back what in the 1950s and we

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talked about mj-12

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and we talked about the military

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controlled by the politics we talked

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about the military-industrial complex

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I guess we don't always have to talk

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about well who the president is no yes

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we have to talk with the president is

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because if there's a president's a

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Romney will he be more amenable to

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talking about UFOs maybe if he's

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broached the question that Murrow and I

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was uh maybe an alien or an et that

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might provoke a response but first of

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all you folks that don't know Murrow and

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I was that was the the shining beam that

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came down and gave Joseph Smith the

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tablets in the 1840s in upstate New York

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which spawned the Mormon religion which

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I've always considered to be a trickster

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rich kind of UFO alien contact event if

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it really happened so a good question no

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we'll see someone should pop it well we

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have a lot of questions to pop about

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today's episode we'll get into that in a

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moment at the end of last week's episode

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in our discussion of Mayan mysteries you

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mentioned that you and cliff mahooty

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we're going to be hosting a special

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Safari to Mayan country yeah we are

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indeed the world Explorers Club along in

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conjunction with Adventures unlimited

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press is sponsoring a putting on a tour

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down to Palenque but for just before

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Thanksgiving which is right in the time

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period that Terence Mckenna

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originally figured out through his time

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wave zero kind of abandoned flowing of

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novelty in culture he came up at the end

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of a major cycle during that particular

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time period and then later said well

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isn't it interesting it's you know just

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over a month away from the end of the of

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this particular cycle of the bach tune

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so prices are a lot more affordable

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there you know for the actual 2012

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events that my brother and Johnny have

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three tours that are going off

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simultaneously the 17th through the 23rd

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of December and david childress came up

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with the idea well let's go down there

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early for people who don't want to be

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down for all the craziness at the end of

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the year there and and do you know do a

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tour when we can keep the price down so

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Clifford and I'll be presenting in

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November down in Palenque and then we do

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have the three tours going off around

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that 2012 time period so

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you're going to be doing shows from down

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there yeah why not I'll be great it'll

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be our first foreign remote taping

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well we've had guests as far away as

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Australia but never not you and I know

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and it's gonna be you it's not gonna be

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I well maybe you know if someone wants

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to finance my trip maybe I'll consider

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it but I don't know be fun to see in the

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jungle with the monkeys there Dean well

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they have to tell us a partner does it

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say who is that alien being who has made

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his appearance fair the Mayans will be

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freaking yeah cuz you animals think

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about the Mayans yeah they'd be a hard

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time to to see you because they're about

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half your height are they yep

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so it's like me looking down at little

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gray aliens you know right now we're

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going to have pickets around our studio

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from those who have my in blood he

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attacked us he called us like grey

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aliens now I'm talking about the height

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okay I'll let you slide sure yes you

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will of course you will but it sounds

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fascinating tell our listeners once

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again where they can get more

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information about this special tour

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featuring Chris O'Brien featuring our

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favorite zuni elder clifford

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well you can go to Adventures unlimited

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press calm or the world explorers

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club.com and there's also a full-page ad

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in the brand new world explorers club

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magazine or you can catch up with me for

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more details and contact me at my

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website our strange planet calm and our

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strange planet by the way is being

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updated as we say finally we had to find

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people to do it and to be a great design

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a lot easier to read you know I'm not a

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big fan of this so-called paranormal

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scheme for websites which is white

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lettering on a black background you know

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if you have to have a paranormal site

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it's got to be white lettering on a

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black background that's okay for labels

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you know

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but reading thousands of words of text

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white on black is it sure it doesn't

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work you know well we're gonna correct

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all that right gonna fix it make it

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whole again

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speaking of fixing things we're gonna

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fix a lot of interesting information

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from our guests today and you've

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assembled a winner here this is going to

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be one of the best episodes ever tell

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our listeners a little bit about it well

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Chris Lambright is someone that's been

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an unsung hero working behind the scenes

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for decades in ufology

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he's down in Texas he was one of the

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early investigators of the cash Landrum

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case he's worked with other kind of low

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key investigators including Tommy bland

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and Chris has written a book called X

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descending that's just amazing it the

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first half of the book is about the

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story of Ray Stanford analyzing one of

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his films given a presentation to a

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aerospace scientist and then his the

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results of his analytical process ended

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up in the aerospace industry and we're

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gonna go in-depth in this particular

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regard chris is an incredible researcher

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I was just amazed at the amount of

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research that he was able to dig up

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about this pretty controversial scenario

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and the second half of his book is a

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real interesting look at the Paul

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bennewitz case including really high-res

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color photographs have been and whit's

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took that I was unaware existed and and

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and he really again does a superb job

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researching these stories and and this

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is really gonna be a really nice show I

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think now not to start a hornet's nest

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here you were telling me that his take

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of this is somewhat different than the

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take that was made by Greg Bishop when

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he wrote his book well I think I think

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the fundamentals of the story are the

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same I think there are nuances that

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there may be some differences there and

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and of course we will

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at some point during the show we will

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talk about that a little bit

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the bennewitz case is very controversial

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it's very difficult to obviously in a

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disinformation project like evident

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went on with the man by the government

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it's difficult sometimes to really

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ascertain you know the hard-boiled truth

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about any series of events like this but

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I think Chris has done you know in

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combining his research with Gregg's

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research I think we're coming up with a

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much better fuller rounded picture of

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that whole scenario and it's pretty it's

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pretty sobering material and and I can't

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wait to quiz him on some of the details

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okay our guests are Chris Lambright race

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Stanford all this and more and by the

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way the book is called X descending

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[Music]

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this folks is a revelation no more wall

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warts for charging her USB devices

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including your ipads iphones ipods

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androids cell phones us be chargeable

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cameras and more power to you replaces

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the standard AC outlet and gives you two

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high-power USB ports and two AC outlets

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to get one go to Mac sales.com

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slash power to you that's mac sales.com

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power number two letter you check it out

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people we know but we don't really know

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box we'd like to hear from you if you

320
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:06,150
have a comment or question about the

321
00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:09,690
power cast send it to news at the para

322
00:14:14,900 --> 00:14:10,990
cast com

323
00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:14,910
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

324
00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:17,380
if you'd like to catch up on past

325
00:14:23,010 --> 00:14:20,260
episodes we have hundreds of shows for

326
00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:23,020
you to download direct from the para

327
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:24,670
cast com

328
00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:29,110
that's the para cast dot-com or check us

329
00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:34,089
out at iTunes with Jean Steinberg Chris

330
00:14:38,970 --> 00:14:36,430
O'Brien and a second Chris Chris

331
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:38,980
Lambright were in that dilemma again

332
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:40,750
with the multiple Chris's that's how it

333
00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:42,130
goes we got to change all their names

334
00:14:48,449 --> 00:14:44,470
anyone named Chris from now on you go on

335
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:48,459
the show you're either KK or RR or who

336
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:50,800
knows and we have R a Stanford of which

337
00:14:56,430 --> 00:14:54,310
there is only one hi ray hi let's start

338
00:14:59,550 --> 00:14:56,440
in our focus here in discussing this

339
00:15:03,780 --> 00:14:59,560
book called X descending the first focus

340
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:03,790
is a UFO movie a multi witness UFO movie

341
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:06,130
that was filmed by you Ray Stanford so

342
00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:07,930
tell our listeners what that's about and

343
00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:09,670
let's see how it dovetails with the

344
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:13,209
topic of this book right okay this movie

345
00:15:19,949 --> 00:15:16,000
was taken beautiful MIT after sunny

346
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:19,959
October 5th 1985 afternoon on the bay

347
00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:22,690
front in Corpus Christi Texas and right

348
00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:25,510
on the Gulf Coast really my to Elvis

349
00:15:29,510 --> 00:15:27,300
children and I were were down there and

350
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:29,520
seeing the sides on the bay and we had

351
00:15:35,579 --> 00:15:32,350
walked out on a pier called the Emerald

352
00:15:37,319 --> 00:15:35,589
Cove breakwater pier and there were

353
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:37,329
other people out there and at the park

354
00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:38,649
adjacent they were probably about 400

355
00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:41,470
people but they were six of us on the

356
00:15:46,050 --> 00:15:43,390
pier two adults and their twenty

357
00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:46,060
one-year-old or adults really and my two

358
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:49,000
kids and I and my kids that had an

359
00:15:53,310 --> 00:15:50,050
agreement with him that they ever

360
00:15:55,889 --> 00:15:53,320
spotted what turned out to be a bonafide

361
00:15:58,050 --> 00:15:55,899
anomalous aerial object that whoever

362
00:16:00,449 --> 00:15:58,060
spotted it if I got a film of it could

363
00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:00,459
get paid ten dollars unfortunately we

364
00:16:04,319 --> 00:16:02,500
walk down the pier and I was watching

365
00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:04,329
our step because their steps because

366
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:05,950
they there was algae on the pier and I

367
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:06,940
was frayed they're going to slip off on

368
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:08,890
the rocks but they were watching this

369
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:11,529
guy and both of us the same moment

370
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:13,420
pointed up and said daddy what's that I

371
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:17,050
looked up and here is a disc flying over

372
00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:19,600
from the north from the east northeast

373
00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:22,360
direction of Ingleside Texas I grabbed

374
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:24,400
my camera which I'm habitually carried

375
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:24,880
with me

376
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:27,759
which was on pin power telephoto and

377
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:31,540
started filming and I hadn't been

378
00:16:35,579 --> 00:16:33,730
filming very long when the kids said

379
00:16:38,370 --> 00:16:35,589
daddy there's another one coming in the

380
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:38,380
same way and sure enough there was turns

381
00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:41,050
out there was the procession of at least

382
00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:43,000
by the time we got observing it eight

383
00:16:47,850 --> 00:16:44,620
total objects seven of which were

384
00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:47,860
identical which is the type that crystal

385
00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:50,350
mi deals with in his book X descending

386
00:16:54,689 --> 00:16:52,060
and then there was a third one that was

387
00:16:56,930 --> 00:16:54,699
even more bizarre and different but

388
00:17:00,449 --> 00:16:56,940
there was something that really

389
00:17:04,110 --> 00:17:00,459
surprised me that I had never thought of

390
00:17:06,299 --> 00:17:04,120
in terms of disc type objects it turns

391
00:17:08,610 --> 00:17:06,309
out that these these seven objects which

392
00:17:11,309 --> 00:17:08,620
appear to be essentially or exactly

393
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:11,319
perhaps identical were flying along

394
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:14,319
there with the dome in the opposite

395
00:17:18,059 --> 00:17:16,000
direction from the direction of travel

396
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:18,069
and the flat what we might consider the

397
00:17:23,819 --> 00:17:20,230
bottom actually in the direction of

398
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:23,829
travel and there was a structure

399
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:26,559
constructed on that relatively flat

400
00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:29,110
looking bottom of the the disc or it may

401
00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:30,940
have been a six or eight sided figures

402
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:32,980
sometimes when it fired the blue green

403
00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:35,049
flames around the edge it look around at

404
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:37,720
other times it look more polygonal but

405
00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:39,280
anyway there was a structure there that

406
00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:42,030
remind me of a tower with some little

407
00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:45,340
triangular looking devices on it but it

408
00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:47,140
would build up with the plasma apparent

409
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:48,820
a light anyway it I presume it was a

410
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:50,710
plasma highly electrified hemisphere

411
00:17:56,850 --> 00:17:53,320
anyway and this would project out ahead

412
00:17:59,340 --> 00:17:56,860
of it in pulses for up to maybe thirty

413
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:59,350
diameters in in front of them and this

414
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:00,880
is something of course that I had never

415
00:18:05,310 --> 00:18:03,130
had never encountered in the literature

416
00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:05,320
and I had never seen myself and it was

417
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:07,929
it was very very I knew that I was

418
00:18:11,580 --> 00:18:08,860
getting something really really

419
00:18:13,919 --> 00:18:11,590
important and strange and there was

420
00:18:15,330 --> 00:18:13,929
another aspect there was a different

421
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:15,340
kind of a beam that well let me explain

422
00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:17,890
these objects each one of them came over

423
00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:19,480
from the direction of English side the

424
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:22,270
east-northeast and it would come to

425
00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:24,250
almost overhead where we were there on

426
00:18:28,860 --> 00:18:25,720
the Corpus Christi Bayfront by what's

427
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:28,870
called the eb col park and then they

428
00:18:32,940 --> 00:18:30,610
would each one would turn and go up

429
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:32,950
almost they were coming horizontally but

430
00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:34,270
then they would turn and go almost

431
00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:36,520
straight up vertically not completely

432
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:38,230
vertically but almost in

433
00:18:43,799 --> 00:18:41,260
disappear with distance thus going over

434
00:18:46,169 --> 00:18:43,809
head straight into the distance and but

435
00:18:48,659 --> 00:18:46,179
there was another phenomenon a different

436
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:48,669
type of being that was projected do we

437
00:18:51,870 --> 00:18:50,410
vote that I tell about that or shall we

438
00:18:54,570 --> 00:18:51,880
just leave it to the one that Kris talks

439
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:54,580
about in his book well I would like to

440
00:18:59,520 --> 00:18:56,770
hear about both okay let me tell you

441
00:19:01,530 --> 00:18:59,530
about both one of the objects I think it

442
00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:01,540
was the last one that I had only film

443
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:04,150
enough to get four of these but one of

444
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:06,010
the objects stopped when it got into

445
00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:07,330
that overhead position where they would

446
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:09,640
normally go up vertically right one of

447
00:19:12,299 --> 00:19:10,809
the objects stopped and waited for

448
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:12,309
another one to come up to it from the

449
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:14,830
same direction and they got side by side

450
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,630
and then went up but anyway one of the

451
00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:18,640
objects when it stopped stayed there

452
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:20,950
longer and and usually they didn't stop

453
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:21,970
they would just make a turn II keep

454
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,040
going up but this one that stopped

455
00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:26,559
projected out relative to where I'm

456
00:19:31,230 --> 00:19:28,750
looking up at it the right side of it

457
00:19:33,630 --> 00:19:31,240
projected out one of these classical

458
00:19:35,850 --> 00:19:33,640
so-called southern light beams or slow

459
00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:35,860
projecting beams that remind reminds me

460
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:37,960
of pulling an old-fashioned telescope

461
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,440
out and this beam came slowly out and it

462
00:19:45,539 --> 00:19:43,360
started rotating down pretty much toward

463
00:19:48,210 --> 00:19:45,549
us and then around past our direction

464
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:48,220
and eventually drew in to the side of

465
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:50,770
the object I got I've complete film of

466
00:19:55,919 --> 00:19:53,470
this in broad daylight and as it happens

467
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,929
there was something coming down this

468
00:20:00,930 --> 00:19:58,240
beam they turns out the beam was

469
00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:00,940
releasing smaller objects and they would

470
00:20:05,970 --> 00:20:02,590
come down the beam which was kind of a

471
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:05,980
electric blue color inside the beam the

472
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,110
obviously looked kind of kind of a

473
00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:11,200
magenta hard color they changed somewhat

474
00:20:16,350 --> 00:20:14,140
when they got out of the the beam and as

475
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:16,360
one can see in the the print from the

476
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:20,650
film they generated a kind of a rhombic

477
00:20:25,409 --> 00:20:22,510
a nice um I might call it diamond shape

478
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:25,419
but a four-sided rhombic shape around

479
00:20:29,610 --> 00:20:27,970
them before they they flew off it wasn't

480
00:20:31,950 --> 00:20:29,620
so much later I learned of a case in

481
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:31,960
Germany where a mothership projected one

482
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:33,910
of these slow beams and objects went to

483
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:36,490
and from the beam and this made me think

484
00:20:40,289 --> 00:20:38,290
not at the time I was too excited to

485
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:40,299
think about much what was happening but

486
00:20:44,909 --> 00:20:42,730
later I decided that probably the beam

487
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:44,919
was a protection from the primary field

488
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:46,690
of the objects that they were leaving to

489
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:49,090
get them a certain radius from it before

490
00:20:52,049 --> 00:20:51,610
they took off under their own power okay

491
00:20:53,639 --> 00:20:52,059
I'm just

492
00:20:56,159 --> 00:20:53,649
it's a speculation that's gonna be

493
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:56,169
difficult to substantiate the movie

494
00:21:00,479 --> 00:20:58,690
itself what does it show it shows that

495
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:00,489
all of that happening and so it's not

496
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:02,529
speculation and just about what it was

497
00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:04,330
doing the interpretation of the

498
00:21:10,139 --> 00:21:07,509
speculation course but then the the beam

499
00:21:11,549 --> 00:21:10,149
ahead was we can pretty well deduce what

500
00:21:14,129 --> 00:21:11,559
that's doing because we've got beautiful

501
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:14,139
frames from the film and it is also

502
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:16,570
electric blue however if I say this much

503
00:21:21,989 --> 00:21:17,950
longer and narrower than this slow

504
00:21:24,299 --> 00:21:21,999
projecting beam and it was well it

505
00:21:25,649 --> 00:21:24,309
looked kind of like a might make an

506
00:21:28,589 --> 00:21:25,659
electric rope it looked like it had

507
00:21:31,049 --> 00:21:28,599
spirals within it or like it was twisted

508
00:21:33,169 --> 00:21:31,059
or spiraling all those very narrow and

509
00:21:36,029 --> 00:21:33,179
would go far out and there was a

510
00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:36,039
succession of pulses of this beam it

511
00:21:40,469 --> 00:21:38,440
wasn't as if a beam stayed continuous

512
00:21:42,089 --> 00:21:40,479
there would be an effect it go all the

513
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:42,099
way out and then another one begin back

514
00:21:47,159 --> 00:21:44,710
at the tip of the tower after it started

515
00:21:49,229 --> 00:21:47,169
glowing brighter and would go on out so

516
00:21:51,419 --> 00:21:49,239
when you take the individual movie

517
00:21:54,269 --> 00:21:51,429
frames and look at them you see that

518
00:21:57,659 --> 00:21:54,279
there are what I call pulse regimes in

519
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:57,669
which there's a newest pulse near it in

520
00:22:02,369 --> 00:21:59,919
a given frame but you see successive

521
00:22:05,399 --> 00:22:02,379
places where the beam had progressed

522
00:22:07,499 --> 00:22:05,409
outward and as this beam goes out you

523
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:07,509
see coming off of it the kind of thing

524
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,570
you would see if you took a magnetic

525
00:22:14,219 --> 00:22:12,159
just a magnet and put a paper over it

526
00:22:15,959 --> 00:22:14,229
and put some shavings you see that kind

527
00:22:18,089 --> 00:22:15,969
of curvature like at the top of a

528
00:22:20,219 --> 00:22:18,099
magnetic field at each one of these

529
00:22:22,829 --> 00:22:20,229
pulse regimes along the beam and then of

530
00:22:24,930 --> 00:22:22,839
course at the end of it as well so it

531
00:22:26,369 --> 00:22:24,940
was quite remarkable and quite

532
00:22:28,739 --> 00:22:26,379
surprising because they just hadn't

533
00:22:30,659 --> 00:22:28,749
conceived of objects flying with their

534
00:22:33,209 --> 00:22:30,669
flattest side forward so apparently

535
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:33,219
these must be non aerodynamic maybe

536
00:22:36,239 --> 00:22:35,710
magneto plasma dynamic devices or some

537
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:36,249
sort

538
00:22:41,249 --> 00:22:38,769
we have reef Stanford we have Chris lamb

539
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:41,259
right we have another Chris O'Brien with

540
00:22:51,090 --> 00:22:48,869
[Music]

541
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:51,100
America's number one source for

542
00:22:54,489 --> 00:22:53,570
independent talk retails for over a

543
00:22:59,680 --> 00:22:54,499
decade

544
00:23:02,110 --> 00:22:59,690
we are the gcn radio network if you want

545
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:02,120
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public currency is a greater menace to

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that's o rgan

646
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I see a seed calm organic acid calm

647
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:03,410
today hi this is Don Ecker and you are

648
00:27:08,530 --> 00:27:06,290
tuned in to the para cast let me tell

649
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:08,540
you what you're gonna hear stuff here

650
00:27:14,830 --> 00:27:11,330
that you probably won't hear

651
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:14,840
where else hear that George snoring okay

652
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:18,050
we're covering here this film that ray

653
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:21,440
Stanford acquired of UFO with race

654
00:27:25,270 --> 00:27:23,030
Stanford of course and also Chris

655
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:25,280
Lambright the book is called X

656
00:27:31,690 --> 00:27:28,130
descending covering in part this film

657
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:31,700
and also covering the controversial Paul

658
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:33,110
bennewitz case and all the strange

659
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,120
things that happened there got a lot to

660
00:27:39,790 --> 00:27:38,000
go rate this film isn't available online

661
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:39,800
somewhere for our listeners to take a

662
00:27:45,550 --> 00:27:43,760
look no it is not and it probably will

663
00:27:46,660 --> 00:27:45,560
not be for a long time those who are

664
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:46,670
serious researchers as I've said before

665
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:48,770
they want to see this thing they can

666
00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:50,330
show me there's legitimate honest and

667
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:52,160
are trying to make genuine contributions

668
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:53,510
to our knowledge of anomalous aerial

669
00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:55,730
objects science I will be happy to show

670
00:28:00,280 --> 00:27:58,730
them this in the presentation concerning

671
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:00,290
the physical properties of anomalous

672
00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:03,440
aerial objects that that of course both

673
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,780
chris is here have seen and that many

674
00:28:08,890 --> 00:28:07,760
others have seen as well that's the way

675
00:28:11,020 --> 00:28:08,900
they're gonna have to see it though for

676
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:11,030
now so they have to see in person if

677
00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:12,890
they are able to attend one of these

678
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:15,620
sessions oh yeah that's right okay there

679
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:17,930
any reason why it's not online well the

680
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:20,330
first place I considered the details of

681
00:28:25,420 --> 00:28:22,490
this I've still debated this for years

682
00:28:27,070 --> 00:28:25,430
as Chris Lambright knows I consider this

683
00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:27,080
possible that some of the details of

684
00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:28,550
this may be pertinent to National

685
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:32,420
Defense there are details in the pattern

686
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:33,770
the omission pattern around these beams

687
00:28:40,090 --> 00:28:37,520
that should further tell a in advance

688
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:40,100
aerospace engineer RA a physicist

689
00:28:43,570 --> 00:28:41,930
dealing in this what is happening in a

690
00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:43,580
way that is probably beyond still

691
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:46,040
anything that has been replicated based

692
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:47,930
on this as Chris report said his book

693
00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:49,970
and I don't like to just throw these

694
00:28:52,990 --> 00:28:51,470
things out some more I don't like to

695
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:53,000
throw them out and let all these jokers

696
00:28:58,930 --> 00:28:56,720
that I see every day on the internet via

697
00:29:00,760 --> 00:28:58,940
YouTube that are faking you know

698
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:00,770
Photoshop things I don't want to tell

699
00:29:06,940 --> 00:29:04,940
them what to fake and if necessary I'll

700
00:29:08,410 --> 00:29:06,950
keep it secret forever and only share it

701
00:29:10,750 --> 00:29:08,420
with scientists you might be able to

702
00:29:12,970 --> 00:29:10,760
apply it further then let those Joker's

703
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:12,980
get a concept of what these things

704
00:29:17,530 --> 00:29:14,810
really look like for the benefit our

705
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:17,540
listeners here the book X descending

706
00:29:23,230 --> 00:29:20,210
does it show anything from this film oh

707
00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:23,240
you're asking Chris Lambright I'm asking

708
00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:23,900
either of you

709
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,220
oh you asking me

710
00:29:28,750 --> 00:29:26,960
okay yeah I've seen the book no it does

711
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:28,760
not show anything from Chris's however

712
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:30,890
on excellent excellent computer artist

713
00:29:33,930 --> 00:29:32,000
and he has done some excellent

714
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:33,940
simulations based on what I showed him

715
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:37,130
of the you know from the movie I mean he

716
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:39,050
done a good job it's not as pretty and

717
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:42,350
detailed as the movie but he's basically

718
00:29:46,210 --> 00:29:44,960
focusing on the main plasma aspects of

719
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:46,220
it I mean there there's some pretty

720
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:48,710
remarkable details when you look at the

721
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:51,890
actual movie and I didn't mention that

722
00:29:57,130 --> 00:29:54,530
this disc this up in the skies is

723
00:29:58,330 --> 00:29:57,140
projecting this beam out of the flat

724
00:30:00,790 --> 00:29:58,340
side what we would think of as the

725
00:30:04,510 --> 00:30:00,800
bottom if it had the bottom down that

726
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:04,520
that flat side actually has a pink six

727
00:30:08,590 --> 00:30:05,930
or eight so I believe it's excited

728
00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:08,600
figure glowing there with this dark the

729
00:30:13,180 --> 00:30:11,180
tower sticking out of it but around the

730
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:13,190
edge of the object beyond where the

731
00:30:20,260 --> 00:30:16,490
edges of the pink hexakill meet the edge

732
00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:20,270
of the disc or quasi disc our emissions

733
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:23,270
at six points that are Bluegreen and

734
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:26,720
they go out and kind of curve around as

735
00:30:30,190 --> 00:30:28,730
though we had the electro-motive force

736
00:30:32,830 --> 00:30:30,200
which would make the electrons or the

737
00:30:34,540 --> 00:30:32,840
plasma move straight out interacting

738
00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:34,550
with the magnetic force which is called

739
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:36,590
the Lorentz force and thus producing a

740
00:30:40,510 --> 00:30:38,930
curve you actually see this kind of like

741
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:40,520
what some people call a Catherine Wheel

742
00:30:46,690 --> 00:30:45,440
an actual curved blue green I don't like

743
00:30:48,430 --> 00:30:46,700
the word playing because it's not really

744
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:48,440
a flame but it is a plasma apparently

745
00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:50,630
and it's Bluegreen it contrasts with a

746
00:30:55,180 --> 00:30:52,460
beautiful pink and then that the places

747
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:55,190
in the film were the craft is is

748
00:30:58,540 --> 00:30:57,050
oriented in a different direction where

749
00:31:00,100 --> 00:30:58,550
you're not seeing what we would think of

750
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,110
as the bottom with the tower on it which

751
00:31:04,930 --> 00:31:02,480
is not really the bottom is no more if

752
00:31:06,370 --> 00:31:04,940
you look at the dome side of it most of

753
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:06,380
the time that I recall off the top of my

754
00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:08,690
head and from the film is that you saw

755
00:31:13,870 --> 00:31:11,030
plasma color so the kind of turquoise

756
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:13,880
and pinks mixed with some kind of

757
00:31:19,150 --> 00:31:17,330
electric blue lights oh well a gang into

758
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:19,160
a lot of extraneous information here

759
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:21,710
that we want to get focused on the

760
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:24,170
practical aspects of what was discovered

761
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:26,960
here now you understand those who are

762
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:29,840
skeptical of this are gonna say what's

763
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:31,010
he talking about he's not going to show

764
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:33,410
the film how should we believe it so

765
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:35,840
what do you tell people like that well I

766
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:38,450
tell them that I don't really care what

767
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,049
they believe it

768
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:41,360
I know it's real there were six of us

769
00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:44,480
right there on the pier and I in fact

770
00:31:48,820 --> 00:31:45,950
when I ran out of film I handed it to

771
00:31:50,979 --> 00:31:48,830
the lady that was there beside me or 21

772
00:31:53,710 --> 00:31:50,989
you about I said take a look yourself at

773
00:31:55,299 --> 00:31:53,720
ten power I mean I really don't care if

774
00:31:58,690 --> 00:31:55,309
anybody believes they're not its reality

775
00:32:01,960 --> 00:31:58,700
it is led as as Chris proves in his book

776
00:32:04,629 --> 00:32:01,970
to a major aerospace technical

777
00:32:06,190 --> 00:32:04,639
breakthrough for propulsion is concerned

778
00:32:07,299 --> 00:32:06,200
and I think that's enough evidence

779
00:32:08,979 --> 00:32:07,309
people don't want to believe it it's not

780
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:08,989
religion so I don't I'm not in the

781
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:10,730
business of processing people in good

782
00:32:16,749 --> 00:32:13,970
point ray and I must add to to the

783
00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:16,759
conversation here I do cover this

784
00:32:21,489 --> 00:32:19,700
extensively in my many interviews that

785
00:32:23,979 --> 00:32:21,499
I've done with Ray and one interview

786
00:32:26,859 --> 00:32:23,989
does go into quite a bit of detail about

787
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:26,869
this event and also the amazing amount

788
00:32:32,919 --> 00:32:30,080
of leg work that we then performed to

789
00:32:35,349 --> 00:32:32,929
get corroboration about you know from

790
00:32:39,310 --> 00:32:35,359
our witnesses and also checking around

791
00:32:42,249 --> 00:32:39,320
the area with with aviation sources

792
00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:42,259
within the aviation and military Chris

793
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:45,590
there you'da - this is important one

794
00:32:50,139 --> 00:32:48,559
thing is I called after I got the film

795
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:50,149
back and saw how good it was I called

796
00:32:55,749 --> 00:32:53,210
the newspaper in Corpus Christi and I

797
00:32:57,489 --> 00:32:55,759
said look I would like I've got this

798
00:33:00,369 --> 00:32:57,499
movie and I explained what I had seen

799
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:00,379
and I said I'd like to try to find

800
00:33:05,739 --> 00:33:02,799
witnesses with the help of the paper and

801
00:33:07,659 --> 00:33:05,749
he said he said well no you're telling

802
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:07,669
me the truth I said why do you know that

803
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:11,570
and he said because we had a call from a

804
00:33:16,629 --> 00:33:15,440
boy 11 years old that afternoon right in

805
00:33:18,489 --> 00:33:16,639
the time period that you were watching

806
00:33:20,049 --> 00:33:18,499
these objects we had to call after but

807
00:33:22,629 --> 00:33:20,059
he had seen this during that time period

808
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:22,639
and he had photographs he had took and I

809
00:33:25,869 --> 00:33:24,049
said well I'd like to see him he said

810
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:25,879
well you know we had him come down and

811
00:33:28,899 --> 00:33:27,350
he just had a little camera and he came

812
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:28,909
down and processed it and so here's this

813
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,289
bright point in of course he didn't have

814
00:33:34,450 --> 00:33:32,480
a pin power lens like I was using and a

815
00:33:36,639 --> 00:33:34,460
expensive Canon when they're just little

816
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:36,649
cheap camera and see so I told him young

817
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,450
man you know I appreciate your your

818
00:33:42,669 --> 00:33:40,399
bringing this down but it's nothing but

819
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:42,679
a satellite sure and you know a tree or

820
00:33:46,989 --> 00:33:43,850
whenever it was in the afternoon in

821
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:46,999
broad daylight a satellite and and so

822
00:33:50,349 --> 00:33:48,830
you know he said I just told him it was

823
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:50,359
a satellite and I said well he going to

824
00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:52,159
run a thing help me find witnesses and I

825
00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:52,620
said I like

826
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,270
interview this boy but I'd also like to

827
00:33:59,060 --> 00:33:56,880
hear other people like a cold parking

828
00:34:01,910 --> 00:33:59,070
probably got super much better film and

829
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,920
he said no he said not unless you let me

830
00:34:05,930 --> 00:34:04,260
print photographs from your film

831
00:34:06,290 --> 00:34:05,940
premiere film frames and I said forget

832
00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:06,300
it

833
00:34:17,149 --> 00:34:15,060
even more worthless in the court of

834
00:34:18,649 --> 00:34:17,159
science I said I don't tell them you

835
00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:18,659
know what to fake on the film if they

836
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:20,310
want to create a hoax I don't tell them

837
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:22,169
what to describe to me we keep that

838
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:24,450
secret and let them come forward what we

839
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:26,730
tell them is the time and the date and

840
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:29,250
the location and to see what they can

841
00:34:32,270 --> 00:34:30,690
then tell us he said well I'm not going

842
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:32,280
to work that way I said okay it shows

843
00:34:36,379 --> 00:34:34,169
that maybe you're a newspaperman but

844
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:36,389
you're certainly not a scientist that's

845
00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:38,129
one of the things I thought out of the

846
00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:39,960
bring up the other one is Chris

847
00:34:47,629 --> 00:34:43,250
reminding me yep was I called the FAA

848
00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:47,639
headquarters in Dallas Texas I wanted to

849
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:51,270
try to see about getting radar tracking

850
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:53,370
of these objects something quite

851
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:55,260
remarkable happened and I can prove it's

852
00:34:59,480 --> 00:34:56,850
not fixing because I have a tape

853
00:35:03,020 --> 00:34:59,490
recording of this conversation in which

854
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:03,030
I told the guy what I wanted and he said

855
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:04,680
well and I tell the omelette project

856
00:35:08,740 --> 00:35:06,450
Starlight International which everybody

857
00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:08,750
needed back in those days in Texas and

858
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:10,740
but I thank you for saying it was some

859
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:11,970
kind of a government operation because

860
00:35:16,820 --> 00:35:14,730
of what he just said he said he said

861
00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:16,830
well now do you want the just regular

862
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:19,110
radar paints or do you want and I get

863
00:35:25,610 --> 00:35:21,510
this there's an exact quote the plasma

864
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:25,620
penetration images this suggest a radar

865
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:27,510
that the right wavelength that can

866
00:35:30,590 --> 00:35:29,250
penetrate the plasma that is around

867
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:30,600
these objects for propulsion and

868
00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:32,250
actually send up probably by some

869
00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:35,310
scanning mechanism give an image of the

870
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:37,020
actual surface of shape of the object

871
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:39,810
for example and at that point I had to

872
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:41,910
come clean and tell that I'm not with

873
00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:44,010
the government I have to tell you I'm

874
00:35:47,330 --> 00:35:45,390
not through the government and I can't

875
00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:47,340
request that kind of information but I

876
00:35:50,660 --> 00:35:48,990
do have a tape recording of him offering

877
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:50,670
it so I thought maybe I should mention

878
00:35:54,170 --> 00:35:52,200
that he didn't tell me what they had

879
00:35:57,410 --> 00:35:54,180
record of that or not but we didn't we

880
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,420
didn't get that far I was pretty much my

881
00:36:00,530 --> 00:35:59,040
mind was blown and I don't I don't know

882
00:36:03,470 --> 00:36:00,540
what where the conversation went after

883
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:03,480
that oh you nice I guess also if we were

884
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,890
able to hear some of these tape

885
00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:06,160
conversations in the few

886
00:36:09,870 --> 00:36:08,020
sure it's something that would really be

887
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:09,880
fascinating to do a show they will be

888
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:11,770
they they are going to be released okay

889
00:36:16,859 --> 00:36:15,010
enhanced and released okay so basically

890
00:36:19,890 --> 00:36:16,869
get rid of all the hiss and scratching

891
00:36:22,049 --> 00:36:19,900
and all the yeah aberrant analog noise

892
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:22,059
from that sort of thing and our next

893
00:36:26,099 --> 00:36:24,490
segment we'll be talking more to Chris

894
00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:26,109
Lambright give him a chance to explain

895
00:36:31,529 --> 00:36:28,780
how he took that film worked with it and

896
00:36:34,319 --> 00:36:31,539
what came next book is called X

897
00:36:36,329 --> 00:36:34,329
descending with Chris Lambright we're

898
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:36,339
also talking to Ray Stanford with gene

899
00:36:41,010 --> 00:36:38,650
Steinberg and Chris O'Brien you're in

900
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the Paragard

901
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are you tired of searching for great

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[Music]

1004
00:41:09,069 --> 00:41:07,400
this is a skirt 70 author of you up on

1005
00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:09,079
the street singer and listening to the

1006
00:41:17,140 --> 00:41:14,300
para cast one of those Chris and Chris

1007
00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:17,150
episodes Chris O'Brien Chris Lambright

1008
00:41:21,460 --> 00:41:19,220
race stand for joining us I'm Jean

1009
00:41:24,130 --> 00:41:21,470
Steinberg you're in the para cast Chris

1010
00:41:26,730 --> 00:41:24,140
Lambright welcome to the show perhaps

1011
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:26,740
you can start by telling me how you

1012
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:29,599
first saw this film how you reacted to

1013
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:31,130
it and what you did next

1014
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:35,210
I sure hiking I actually met Ray through

1015
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:37,250
our mutual interest in the Socorro case

1016
00:41:42,609 --> 00:41:40,010
which I had planned at one point to do a

1017
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:42,619
whole set of illustrations oil paintings

1018
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:43,609
back in the day this was before

1019
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:46,609
Photoshop and had even talked to dr.

1020
00:41:49,540 --> 00:41:48,170
Hynek about it and I began to put

1021
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:49,550
together all the information that I

1022
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,770
could and visually realize that getting

1023
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:54,079
that kind of visual detail on cases is

1024
00:41:58,900 --> 00:41:56,570
really impossible but but around the way

1025
00:42:01,630 --> 00:41:58,910
I did find Ray's book Socorro saucer in

1026
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:01,640
the pentacon pantry and and I described

1027
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:04,010
some of this in the book but eventually

1028
00:42:08,170 --> 00:42:06,530
met him down in San Antonio I believe it

1029
00:42:09,730 --> 00:42:08,180
was and he invited me at some point to

1030
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:09,740
come visit him at his home in Austin and

1031
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:12,530
see and some of the other images that he

1032
00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:15,200
had and I guess it was probably February

1033
00:42:21,010 --> 00:42:18,260
if I'm not mistaken of 1986 which and I

1034
00:42:22,270 --> 00:42:21,020
recall because it was not too long after

1035
00:42:24,730 --> 00:42:22,280
he had taken this film that we're

1036
00:42:26,260 --> 00:42:24,740
discussing now that I drove down I was

1037
00:42:28,210 --> 00:42:26,270
living up closer to Dallas at the time

1038
00:42:30,579 --> 00:42:28,220
and I drove down to Austin and looked

1039
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:30,589
through a lot of his albums of the

1040
00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:32,569
images that he had taken over over the

1041
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,940
years and and if I can clarify just so

1042
00:42:38,559 --> 00:42:36,800
that everyone understands this is what

1043
00:42:40,569 --> 00:42:38,569
Ray does but we're not talking about

1044
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:40,579
somebody who just goes out and sees

1045
00:42:44,319 --> 00:42:42,710
things every day like some of the things

1046
00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:44,329
that you hear what I won't say how old

1047
00:42:48,609 --> 00:42:46,609
we each are but but over all of this

1048
00:42:50,890 --> 00:42:48,619
time this is simply he has paid

1049
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:50,900
attention and I think his visual acuity

1050
00:42:55,870 --> 00:42:53,089
and awareness is obviously what gives

1051
00:42:58,900 --> 00:42:55,880
him a leg up on I guess most of the rest

1052
00:43:00,370 --> 00:42:58,910
of us but I do recall when he said let

1053
00:43:02,349 --> 00:43:00,380
me show you something I got not too long

1054
00:43:05,470 --> 00:43:02,359
before and he put the slide screen on

1055
00:43:08,050 --> 00:43:05,480
the up in his in his home and when he

1056
00:43:10,089 --> 00:43:08,060
projected this the one image that I

1057
00:43:12,730 --> 00:43:10,099
recall visually vividly at this point in

1058
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:12,740
my mind hi I mean boy I stood up and

1059
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:14,780
walked up to the screen and looked right

1060
00:43:20,350 --> 00:43:18,530
at it and I again I try to describe

1061
00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:20,360
feeling is kind of a BS meter that we

1062
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:21,710
all have when you see something and

1063
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:23,690
maybe even before your conscious mind

1064
00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:25,730
can identify your unconscious mind is

1065
00:43:30,370 --> 00:43:27,710
seeing things and you know tapping you

1066
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:30,380
in the back of your of your mind and I

1067
00:43:35,650 --> 00:43:32,480
realized right then that this was

1068
00:43:37,330 --> 00:43:35,660
something altogether different and you

1069
00:43:39,820 --> 00:43:37,340
know it was my it was a gut instinct at

1070
00:43:41,770 --> 00:43:39,830
the moment but even looking at it I

1071
00:43:44,410 --> 00:43:41,780
think I think it would be obvious to

1072
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:44,420
anyone who's had some familiarity with

1073
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:47,570
especially images taking the telephoto

1074
00:43:51,460 --> 00:43:49,730
lenses I I've had a lifelong interested

1075
00:43:53,140 --> 00:43:51,470
in astronomy so I got a little familiar

1076
00:43:54,850 --> 00:43:53,150
teether with the way and it just should

1077
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:54,860
look and you know it pictures look when

1078
00:43:59,380 --> 00:43:56,960
they're blown up but even after seeing

1079
00:44:01,380 --> 00:43:59,390
this picture and being convinced that I

1080
00:44:03,940 --> 00:44:01,390
had seen something altogether different

1081
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:03,950
and he had other images if I recall some

1082
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:05,210
black-and-white prints that he'd made

1083
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:07,910
that showed to be moving because a lot

1084
00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:09,050
of the things that you're discussing

1085
00:44:12,610 --> 00:44:11,060
here that he's describing are very

1086
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:12,620
apparent I mean if you looked at it you

1087
00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:13,850
would know I mean it would not take

1088
00:44:19,780 --> 00:44:18,230
anybody who knows anything about organic

1089
00:44:21,970 --> 00:44:19,790
so to speak to looked at this thing and

1090
00:44:24,670 --> 00:44:21,980
said this isn't very romantic to be

1091
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:24,680
flying in this this mode so the beam

1092
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:26,480
must be doing something so I mean but at

1093
00:44:30,070 --> 00:44:27,920
the time of course it was speculation

1094
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:30,080
and I drove home even then trying to

1095
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:32,690
decide what have I actually seen in

1096
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:34,610
other words what how do I know what our

1097
00:44:39,790 --> 00:44:37,760
capabilities were at the time so even

1098
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:39,800
then having had an interest in it all of

1099
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:42,410
that time my reason for specifically

1100
00:44:48,850 --> 00:44:46,640
putting this film in the book stems from

1101
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:48,860
the fact that whatever anyone wants to

1102
00:44:53,650 --> 00:44:51,440
say and at this date I wanted I think

1103
00:44:55,810 --> 00:44:53,660
it's important to understand that a lot

1104
00:44:57,970 --> 00:44:55,820
of people have seen this film if Ray has

1105
00:44:59,830 --> 00:44:57,980
not put it on the internet and I'm not

1106
00:45:01,570 --> 00:44:59,840
so sure I would have either if I had

1107
00:45:03,730 --> 00:45:01,580
something this telling because of the

1108
00:45:06,190 --> 00:45:03,740
way the Internet is these days but but

1109
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:06,200
people have seen these images let me ask

1110
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:08,510
you that phrase you just used the way

1111
00:45:14,020 --> 00:45:11,510
the Internet is these days why would you

1112
00:45:17,020 --> 00:45:14,030
not put a photo of this nature on

1113
00:45:19,390 --> 00:45:17,030
YouTube for example my concern initially

1114
00:45:20,980 --> 00:45:19,400
is without and I've even told ray this

1115
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:20,990
before because we're getting older and

1116
00:45:25,690 --> 00:45:22,850
Heath you know in the past has even had

1117
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:25,700
some health scares that without Ray

1118
00:45:31,150 --> 00:45:29,330
there to explain details and I had to go

1119
00:45:32,110 --> 00:45:31,160
back even in my own book and make sure I

1120
00:45:33,550 --> 00:45:32,120
specified

1121
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:33,560
date and location because I realized

1122
00:45:36,940 --> 00:45:34,910
there was a little confusion initially

1123
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:36,950
over was this an actual film it was this

1124
00:45:41,380 --> 00:45:38,810
so there are certain details that Rey

1125
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:41,390
needs to be there to explain just like I

1126
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:44,930
took myself to not gone to Paul himself

1127
00:45:48,910 --> 00:45:46,880
and gotten with details from him

1128
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:48,920
although I have hand written material

1129
00:45:53,110 --> 00:45:51,170
the point is Ray and his mind you can

1130
00:45:55,060 --> 00:45:53,120
hear his description is as important to

1131
00:45:56,050 --> 00:45:55,070
substantiating and giving details of the

1132
00:45:58,030 --> 00:45:56,060
film as anything else

1133
00:46:00,880 --> 00:45:58,040
what about recording a full presentation

1134
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,890
from Ray the presentation is showing him

1135
00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:03,200
in the film him narrating what details

1136
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:05,630
we should look on I'm all for it and in

1137
00:46:12,340 --> 00:46:08,810
fact I at one point specifically told

1138
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:12,350
Ray that I said ray and yeah and

1139
00:46:16,330 --> 00:46:14,450
honestly just like friends or brothers

1140
00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:16,340
ray and I butt heads over a lot of

1141
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:18,380
things ourselves so this is not you know

1142
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:19,760
we're all not here just following along

1143
00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:21,440
behind ray because he knows if he sends

1144
00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:23,360
me something I'm gonna put it in and

1145
00:46:27,820 --> 00:46:25,700
enhance it and check it myself but my

1146
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:27,830
point was that I even told her I said

1147
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:29,450
great I am only going to work off of

1148
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:31,520
what I can recall my memory and I've

1149
00:46:34,690 --> 00:46:33,170
seen these images two or three times

1150
00:46:37,060 --> 00:46:34,700
I've been to visit ray in Washington

1151
00:46:39,070 --> 00:46:37,070
when I saw him down here and subsequent

1152
00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:39,080
to that he's sent me a lot more images

1153
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:41,030
to look at but I was trying to be very

1154
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:43,520
careful that I only put in what I could

1155
00:46:49,870 --> 00:46:46,400
recall because I want people to see what

1156
00:46:51,850 --> 00:46:49,880
Ray has and I want him to be able I just

1157
00:46:54,100 --> 00:46:51,860
happen to believe it once you see it and

1158
00:46:55,690 --> 00:46:54,110
you hear what it's about you'll know I

1159
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:55,700
mean you will know this is not to be but

1160
00:46:59,050 --> 00:46:57,770
okay but that's academic because we're

1161
00:47:01,600 --> 00:46:59,060
not seeing it we're not seeing the

1162
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:01,610
presentation so tell us what did you do

1163
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:04,250
with this material where does it become

1164
00:47:08,830 --> 00:47:06,530
significant other than just another UFO

1165
00:47:11,350 --> 00:47:08,840
photo because at this point when I

1166
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:11,360
realized that Professor Mirabeau had

1167
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:13,010
been to Ray's house which of course I

1168
00:47:17,650 --> 00:47:15,680
came across quite by accident I had no

1169
00:47:19,810 --> 00:47:17,660
knowledge of this beforehand at that

1170
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:19,820
point as I told ray I said all I have to

1171
00:47:24,010 --> 00:47:22,130
do is point towards him if someone out

1172
00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:24,020
there has questions about the fact that

1173
00:47:27,850 --> 00:47:26,600
ray or I or any of us have had an

1174
00:47:29,650 --> 00:47:27,860
interest in this subject

1175
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:29,660
from way back and how can you know

1176
00:47:34,060 --> 00:47:31,850
whether Ray's films are legitimate or

1177
00:47:35,770 --> 00:47:34,070
what all I have to do is point and say

1178
00:47:38,350 --> 00:47:35,780
you know this professor has now

1179
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:38,360
basically made the case for us that

1180
00:47:42,580 --> 00:47:40,970
there is a technological aspect to what

1181
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:42,590
is being caught on film and he was able

1182
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:44,210
to go back and if you looked at the

1183
00:47:48,249 --> 00:47:46,130
images and that he took in his original

1184
00:47:50,589 --> 00:47:48,259
article and you'll notice that the name

1185
00:47:53,650 --> 00:47:50,599
that he gave to the photographs a little

1186
00:47:55,539 --> 00:47:53,660
JPEG image that he used was ve ASM proof

1187
00:47:57,849 --> 00:47:55,549
so what what he had done was

1188
00:47:59,799 --> 00:47:57,859
substantiated that what Ray saw was

1189
00:48:02,589 --> 00:47:59,809
exhibiting some technological processes

1190
00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:02,599
that were new to him and to this day so

1191
00:48:06,099 --> 00:48:04,190
as far as I know and especially back

1192
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:06,109
when he first did his experiments with

1193
00:48:08,769 --> 00:48:06,410
us

1194
00:48:11,410 --> 00:48:08,779
nobody had we don't have the capability

1195
00:48:14,410 --> 00:48:11,420
to actually put that equipment into a

1196
00:48:15,819 --> 00:48:14,420
device and fly it along I mean we're now

1197
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:15,829
getting to the point where we can see

1198
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:17,839
what's happening we understand it and

1199
00:48:21,579 --> 00:48:19,910
that's to me the major significance of

1200
00:48:24,009 --> 00:48:21,589
this film even though Ray has others

1201
00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:24,019
that I think are far more intriguing

1202
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:26,680
this film has been seen by a person with

1203
00:48:32,259 --> 00:48:28,970
substantial credentials because let's

1204
00:48:34,569 --> 00:48:32,269
talk about that Lake maribo it should we

1205
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:34,579
have Ray give us a blow-by-blow account

1206
00:48:40,839 --> 00:48:39,200
of his meeting with maribo or ray do you

1207
00:48:43,390 --> 00:48:40,849
want to talk about that or should you

1208
00:48:45,700 --> 00:48:43,400
have Chris do it ray would be I can tell

1209
00:48:48,099 --> 00:48:45,710
what I know but Ray is the expert well

1210
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:48,109
then let me let me first preface my

1211
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:51,440
response by saying that this professor

1212
00:48:57,579 --> 00:48:55,210
Mirabeau dr. Mary bue I saw this because

1213
00:48:59,259 --> 00:48:57,589
one of the students that he was working

1214
00:49:02,380 --> 00:48:59,269
with on his PhD at Rensselaer

1215
00:49:04,930 --> 00:49:02,390
Polytechnic Institute I had been going

1216
00:49:07,059 --> 00:49:04,940
down to the University of Texas at the

1217
00:49:08,890 --> 00:49:07,069
time when I got this film I knew a menu

1218
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:08,900
of his interest in anomalous aerial

1219
00:49:13,539 --> 00:49:10,970
objects and so I invited him over

1220
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:13,549
because he was in an aerospace

1221
00:49:18,220 --> 00:49:16,490
engineering student and he was I think

1222
00:49:21,759 --> 00:49:18,230
he was completing his master's degree

1223
00:49:24,490 --> 00:49:21,769
there at UT and he saw this and I

1224
00:49:28,569 --> 00:49:24,500
explained to him right away what I felt

1225
00:49:30,910 --> 00:49:28,579
this was doing that it is defecto as the

1226
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:30,920
Campbell had predicted in his book on

1227
00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:33,890
UFOs he's an engineer he said these

1228
00:49:37,509 --> 00:49:35,569
things must have a way of communicating

1229
00:49:39,490 --> 00:49:37,519
with the atmosphere in front of them and

1230
00:49:41,769 --> 00:49:39,500
saying get out of the way well that's

1231
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:41,779
exactly what I realized this thing was

1232
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:44,480
doing with this beam and as the same

1233
00:49:49,930 --> 00:49:46,880
sequences show so I showed this to of

1234
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:49,940
the student and he realized that there

1235
00:49:53,799 --> 00:49:51,890
was something very important here and he

1236
00:49:56,589 --> 00:49:53,809
felt that my interpretation was likely

1237
00:50:00,080 --> 00:49:56,599
correct and so then he went up to

1238
00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:00,090
complete his degree at rinser

1239
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:03,000
Polytech and he told professor Maribel

1240
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:04,890
about this I didn't know that this was

1241
00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:06,810
going on I didn't know that professor

1242
00:50:11,870 --> 00:50:10,020
maribo was working on with the the air

1243
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:11,880
force designing a craft it would take

1244
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:13,650
off on the surface of the earth go into

1245
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:15,060
orbit and come back down without any

1246
00:50:21,490 --> 00:50:17,460
feel powered by beam from the ground and

1247
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:21,500
that it would be propelled by magnetic

1248
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:24,450
principles but he was and so I got a

1249
00:50:30,140 --> 00:50:27,330
call this engineer had stayed in touch

1250
00:50:33,580 --> 00:50:30,150
with me and he called me he said ray

1251
00:50:37,070 --> 00:50:33,590
would you be willing to show this to

1252
00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:37,080
professor Lake maribo here at Polytech

1253
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:38,940
we're coming to the outer space flight

1254
00:50:42,830 --> 00:50:40,290
center for an international conference

1255
00:50:45,470 --> 00:50:42,840
on advanced propulsion and he'd really

1256
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:45,480
like to see this he's intrigued and so I

1257
00:50:50,420 --> 00:50:48,330
invited them over and they spent hours

1258
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:50,430
here during the counters I think it was

1259
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:52,290
probably a two-day conference but they

1260
00:50:59,630 --> 00:50:56,130
spent a lot of time here and I explained

1261
00:51:01,220 --> 00:50:59,640
to him that I showed him the beam and

1262
00:51:02,780 --> 00:51:01,230
where you can see it you can see how to

1263
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:02,790
electrify his abs here and moves it

1264
00:51:07,790 --> 00:51:05,310
right around the object and closes it

1265
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:07,800
neatly in a smaller effect back behind

1266
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:13,050
in fact and I explained this and I never

1267
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,710
expected I didn't plan to to let this

1268
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:19,200
out I'll tell you what before we discuss

1269
00:51:23,060 --> 00:51:20,970
more of the reaction to everything

1270
00:51:25,070 --> 00:51:23,070
you've done race stanford chris

1271
00:51:27,770 --> 00:51:25,080
Lambright the book is called x

1272
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:27,780
descending with gene Steinberg and Chris

1273
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:31,050
O'Brien you're in America

1274
00:51:44,999 --> 00:51:41,819
the GC and radio network providing the

1275
00:51:49,650 --> 00:51:45,009
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

1276
00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:49,660
and great talk radio starts here hi this

1277
00:51:53,819 --> 00:51:51,369
is Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen

1278
00:51:56,459 --> 00:51:53,829
to GCN programs on the goal I have great

1279
00:51:58,679 --> 00:51:56,469
news g ZN has created a droid and iphone

1280
00:52:00,989 --> 00:51:58,689
application and it's free just as easy

1281
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:00,999
as going to GC and live.com click on the

1282
00:52:04,289 --> 00:52:02,890
banner and download before you know it

1283
00:52:06,329 --> 00:52:04,299
you'll be listening to your favorite

1284
00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:06,339
hard-hitting GCN shows live around

1285
00:52:10,979 --> 00:52:08,140
demand right on your droid or iphone

1286
00:52:12,959 --> 00:52:10,989
24/7 and on the go so download the droid

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00:52:14,909 --> 00:52:12,969
an iPhone app free by clicking on the

1288
00:52:16,919 --> 00:52:14,919
banner at juicy and live.com thanks

1289
00:52:19,529 --> 00:52:16,929
again for listening to GC and live.com

1290
00:52:21,150 --> 00:52:19,539
again that's GC and live.com hi this is

1291
00:52:23,189 --> 00:52:21,160
Ted Anderson have you ever wondered why

1292
00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:23,199
banks stockbrokers investment advisors

1293
00:52:27,509 --> 00:52:25,150
won't talk about gold IRAs they've been

1294
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:27,519
available since 1986 yet the financial

1295
00:52:30,539 --> 00:52:29,169
industry won't recognize the value of

1296
00:52:32,459 --> 00:52:30,549
gold free retirement

1297
00:52:34,620 --> 00:52:32,469
gold has outperformed paper investments

1298
00:52:47,449 --> 00:52:34,630
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

1299
00:52:55,180 --> 00:52:49,100
806-853-9949

1300
00:53:03,220 --> 00:52:58,910
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1301
00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:03,230
standard of paranormal radio and now

1302
00:53:12,530 --> 00:53:10,049
here's Jane Steinberg Jean Steinberg

1303
00:53:15,410 --> 00:53:12,540
Chris O'Brien Chris Lambright rays

1304
00:53:17,599 --> 00:53:15,420
Stanford the book is X descending we're

1305
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:17,609
talking about this film and you were

1306
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:19,890
going into the reaction but I want to

1307
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:22,710
focus very very shortly here because

1308
00:53:26,210 --> 00:53:24,930
it's not a very long amount of time

1309
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:26,220
before we want to get into another

1310
00:53:31,539 --> 00:53:28,680
subject and also answer some of the

1311
00:53:34,609 --> 00:53:31,549
questions from our listeners and that is

1312
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:34,619
specifically what is the development

1313
00:53:41,329 --> 00:53:36,930
that we're talking about in layman's

1314
00:53:43,730 --> 00:53:41,339
terms that has revolutionized air travel

1315
00:53:45,650 --> 00:53:43,740
space travel whatever okay are you

1316
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:45,660
asking New Yorkers whoever wants to take

1317
00:53:51,710 --> 00:53:48,720
it okay little work on this so let me

1318
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:51,720
just have this really like the concept

1319
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:53,970
that we're talking about here is what is

1320
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:55,890
referred to as the directed-energy air

1321
00:54:03,559 --> 00:54:00,480
spike it's the use of energy alone to

1322
00:54:05,299 --> 00:54:03,569
create this low-density corridor this

1323
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:05,309
pressure wave if you want to call it out

1324
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:08,250
in front of your vehicle the benefit of

1325
00:54:12,589 --> 00:54:09,930
course on the first hand is that you

1326
00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:12,599
lower drag to virtually nothing if you

1327
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:14,099
if you do this correctly because you're

1328
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:16,980
creating a basically a vacuum corridor a

1329
00:54:22,130 --> 00:54:20,490
bubble around yourself where the word of

1330
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,140
the atmosphere moves away ahead of you

1331
00:54:27,049 --> 00:54:24,960
and because of some of the abilities to

1332
00:54:28,789 --> 00:54:27,059
use the magnetohydrodynamic flow as well

1333
00:54:31,579 --> 00:54:28,799
as usage you can actually increase

1334
00:54:34,010 --> 00:54:31,589
thrust somewhat because you enclosed the

1335
00:54:35,569 --> 00:54:34,020
bubble I think within a half a diameter

1336
00:54:38,599 --> 00:54:35,579
or something to that effect behind your

1337
00:54:39,799 --> 00:54:38,609
vehicle and in Mira Bo's 1994 I think it

1338
00:54:41,390 --> 00:54:39,809
was mentioned in Aviation Week and space

1339
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:41,400
technology he discusses some of this

1340
00:54:45,410 --> 00:54:44,010
that you can actually cause the thing to

1341
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:45,420
collapse behind you and increase

1342
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:47,280
propulsion out of it but the initial

1343
00:54:50,809 --> 00:54:48,930
benefits especially if you look at the

1344
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:50,819
work that's been done afterwards with

1345
00:54:56,210 --> 00:54:53,849
the ability to project energy at a point

1346
00:54:58,430 --> 00:54:56,220
out in front and therefore men either

1347
00:55:02,780 --> 00:54:58,440
mitigate the shock wave or in many cases

1348
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:02,790
use that as for Direction movement by

1349
00:55:05,690 --> 00:55:04,290
increasing pressure on one side or the

1350
00:55:06,799 --> 00:55:05,700
other you can actually control the

1351
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:06,809
direction there's a lot of other

1352
00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:08,010
benefits that are coming out if you

1353
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:09,390
look at the research that goes back and

1354
00:55:13,790 --> 00:55:11,910
references Mirabal and risers initial

1355
00:55:14,990 --> 00:55:13,800
paper Mirabeau himself and I want

1356
00:55:16,730 --> 00:55:15,000
everyone to understand this is a

1357
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:16,740
brilliant guy and had nothing but great

1358
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:18,090
things to say about the fact that he

1359
00:55:22,940 --> 00:55:20,760
took the time to go see he took the time

1360
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:22,950
to go see what Ray had and that made a

1361
00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:25,440
lot of difference but he's brilliant in

1362
00:55:29,210 --> 00:55:27,150
his own ideas for the clean energy

1363
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:29,220
propulsion whether wood laser microwaves

1364
00:55:33,350 --> 00:55:30,960
and although all that type of thing and

1365
00:55:34,250 --> 00:55:33,360
so he knew and had a head start of

1366
00:55:36,380 --> 00:55:34,260
course on the fact that he was

1367
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:36,390
interested in this area of aerospace

1368
00:55:40,220 --> 00:55:38,130
propulsion but it's the directed-energy

1369
00:55:41,570 --> 00:55:40,230
air spite that you'll suddenly see if

1370
00:55:43,850 --> 00:55:41,580
you look at the experiment that he did

1371
00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:43,860
and all of the subsequent illustrations

1372
00:55:48,590 --> 00:55:46,110
of the concepts that he decided he came

1373
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:48,600
up with after let's say the 1993

1374
00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:50,490
timeframe certainly after he saw Ray's

1375
00:55:55,940 --> 00:55:53,220
film suddenly change to a lenticular

1376
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:55,950
elliptical dish shape vehicle the only

1377
00:55:59,060 --> 00:55:57,690
way that we can create the spike or had

1378
00:56:01,490 --> 00:55:59,070
knowledge of how to create the spike at

1379
00:56:03,650 --> 00:56:01,500
the time is to either get energy beamed

1380
00:56:05,930 --> 00:56:03,660
from say space-based stations or

1381
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,940
elsewhere and reflect it to a point

1382
00:56:09,410 --> 00:56:07,920
because the idea is especially if you

1383
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:09,420
look at some of the papers that have

1384
00:56:13,790 --> 00:56:11,040
been written and by NASA and so on that

1385
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:13,800
how to create that amount of energy and

1386
00:56:19,310 --> 00:56:16,250
get it into a vehicle at this point and

1387
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:19,320
be able to fly that's still a problem as

1388
00:56:24,410 --> 00:56:21,510
I say a technology stretch way ahead

1389
00:56:27,050 --> 00:56:24,420
which I think says a substantial amount

1390
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:27,060
about the fact that ray filmed a

1391
00:56:31,550 --> 00:56:29,550
procession of these things back in 1985

1392
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:31,560
how do we make the correlation between

1393
00:56:38,650 --> 00:56:34,290
that film and subsequent developments

1394
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:38,660
other than they being separate issues

1395
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:42,690
okay the advancements in aerospace

1396
00:56:47,930 --> 00:56:45,510
technology and the film that ray took

1397
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:47,940
basically Lake Mirabeau was on a

1398
00:56:54,260 --> 00:56:52,170
particular research track okay because

1399
00:56:56,990 --> 00:56:54,270
this guy was brought into the loop about

1400
00:56:59,720 --> 00:56:57,000
this particular sighting and the film

1401
00:57:02,030 --> 00:56:59,730
and thus what happened after that has to

1402
00:57:04,220 --> 00:57:02,040
be tied to him exactly in other words

1403
00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:04,230
it's too coincidental that all of a

1404
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:06,300
sudden he totally switched his approach

1405
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:08,250
to something that resembles the

1406
00:57:13,730 --> 00:57:10,200
analytical work that ray did on this

1407
00:57:15,980 --> 00:57:13,740
film that maribo was privy to now but as

1408
00:57:19,010 --> 00:57:15,990
Mara even crediting race Stanford about

1409
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:19,020
this or not exactly no no great way is

1410
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:20,970
not I didn't I didn't expect him to her

1411
00:57:24,050 --> 00:57:21,810
asked him to

1412
00:57:26,450 --> 00:57:24,060
Chris decided to out him on this that he

1413
00:57:28,580 --> 00:57:26,460
got this idea from me but I've never had

1414
00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:28,590
any intention doing that I still have

1415
00:57:32,420 --> 00:57:29,940
mixed feelings about it

1416
00:57:34,090 --> 00:57:32,430
but let me let me say something here

1417
00:57:37,100 --> 00:57:34,100
that otherwise we're going to miss it

1418
00:57:39,650 --> 00:57:37,110
there are people already that having

1419
00:57:41,420 --> 00:57:39,660
seen Chris's book who said oh how do we

1420
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:41,430
know these were not you know that this

1421
00:57:45,890 --> 00:57:43,170
is not a videotape he's presented a

1422
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:45,900
black project craft or an experiment and

1423
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:47,880
I'm on a computer or something showing a

1424
00:57:54,110 --> 00:57:51,450
simulation well I also have film of this

1425
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,120
beam ahead going on from let's see that

1426
00:57:59,150 --> 00:57:56,640
would be December force in 1980 flying

1427
00:58:01,580 --> 00:57:59,160
back from Mexico City taken from the air

1428
00:58:03,950 --> 00:58:01,590
at climbing through 12,000 feet in which

1429
00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:03,960
an object approaches a mothership from

1430
00:58:08,270 --> 00:58:06,420
the North has the beam I had pulsing

1431
00:58:10,220 --> 00:58:08,280
ahead of it the whole time goes past the

1432
00:58:11,690 --> 00:58:10,230
mothership between us and it and over to

1433
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:11,700
a group of huge triangular objects that

1434
00:58:17,060 --> 00:58:13,580
were on the left so I have that beam

1435
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:17,070
documented way back then and by no one

1436
00:58:22,340 --> 00:58:19,410
stretch of the imagination was there

1437
00:58:25,340 --> 00:58:22,350
even the possibility of any kind of even

1438
00:58:27,470 --> 00:58:25,350
a crude method of using a beam ahead at

1439
00:58:29,390 --> 00:58:27,480
that period so there was there was

1440
00:58:32,180 --> 00:58:29,400
precedent so this is just as a film from

1441
00:58:34,010 --> 00:58:32,190
Corpus Christi is much better it was the

1442
00:58:35,900 --> 00:58:34,020
being done in Mexico we were between two

1443
00:58:38,180 --> 00:58:35,910
layers of clouds and it was creating ion

1444
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:38,190
vapour but this beam is beautifully

1445
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:40,890
clear and electrical in the Corpus

1446
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:43,290
Christi films so I wanted to bring that

1447
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:45,930
out and let me mention that in case

1448
00:58:51,830 --> 00:58:49,020
anybody doubts this I have a book that

1449
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:51,840
Professor marabou gave me it's about an

1450
00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:56,220
inch thick and it's it's done for the US

1451
00:59:01,220 --> 00:58:58,050
US Space Command or something like that

1452
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:01,230
about this Magna high dynamic Aerodyne

1453
00:59:05,570 --> 00:59:02,970
that you want to fly up there and

1454
00:59:08,030 --> 00:59:05,580
decided to use the the beam head as we

1455
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:08,040
call it as an adjunct after he talked to

1456
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:11,130
me he also asked me he said you know you

1457
00:59:16,850 --> 00:59:14,610
have given us a quantum leap through the

1458
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,860
atmosphere into space with this Ray they

1459
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:18,480
said you know I think you might be able

1460
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:20,040
help us with another problem this

1461
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,570
thing's magneto high namely propelled

1462
00:59:25,940 --> 00:59:23,760
and we're concerned we open these

1463
00:59:28,940 --> 00:59:25,950
landing gear out in this flow you get

1464
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:28,950
chaos and it could result in you know

1465
00:59:32,810 --> 00:59:30,450
the destruction of the craft death of

1466
00:59:35,749 --> 00:59:32,820
those aboard or anything like that said

1467
00:59:38,239 --> 00:59:35,759
how in the world do these whoever may

1468
00:59:40,219 --> 00:59:38,249
these things landed these things on

1469
00:59:42,259 --> 00:59:40,229
landing gear safely and I said well it's

1470
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:42,269
very simple actually you have a magnetic

1471
00:59:45,979 --> 00:59:44,249
torus around the object but it has a

1472
00:59:48,379 --> 00:59:45,989
magnetic vent at the top and the bottom

1473
00:59:50,569 --> 00:59:48,389
you don't use the old engineering

1474
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:50,579
standard of putting them out safely on

1475
00:59:54,259 --> 00:59:52,649
the far edge for maximum stability you

1476
00:59:56,449 --> 00:59:54,269
can't do it because in air flows with

1477
00:59:58,249 --> 00:59:56,459
the flow of plasma in that torus you

1478
01:00:00,499 --> 00:59:58,259
open them inside the magnetic vent where

1479
01:00:03,229 --> 01:00:00,509
it's relatively still well the the

1480
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:03,239
aerospace engineer that had that had

1481
01:00:07,489 --> 01:00:05,130
invited him to come down here at night

1482
01:00:09,049 --> 01:00:07,499
with my permission told me that when

1483
01:00:11,749 --> 01:00:09,059
they got back up to Rinzler at about

1484
01:00:14,719 --> 01:00:11,759
2:15 in the morning the rest of maribo

1485
01:00:17,439 --> 01:00:14,729
dashed upstairs drew the modified

1486
01:00:20,299 --> 01:00:17,449
landing gear plan and transmitted it to

1487
01:00:22,129 --> 01:00:20,309
wright-patterson subsequently professor

1488
01:00:24,620 --> 01:00:22,139
Maribel I'm very much appreciated sent

1489
01:00:27,949 --> 01:00:24,630
me this instinct as I said with the

1490
01:00:29,959 --> 01:00:27,959
modified landing gear plan in it I knew

1491
01:00:31,909 --> 01:00:29,969
this from theoretical basis that it had

1492
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:31,919
to be there and I also had showed I

1493
01:00:36,049 --> 01:00:34,049
showed him a drawing of a landing multi

1494
01:00:38,029 --> 01:00:36,059
witness landing with an occupant outside

1495
01:00:39,499 --> 01:00:38,039
the craft that showed where the landing

1496
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:39,509
gear were and they would have been in

1497
01:00:43,069 --> 01:00:41,609
the magnetic vent and I said you got to

1498
01:00:44,629 --> 01:00:43,079
do it their way are you in for trouble

1499
01:00:46,879 --> 01:00:44,639
he said that's what I was afraid of yeah

1500
01:00:49,519 --> 01:00:46,889
we're gonna have to move those in into

1501
01:00:51,919 --> 01:00:49,529
the cone of relative stillness and so I

1502
01:00:54,259 --> 01:00:51,929
so really you're not you're okay with

1503
01:00:54,949 --> 01:00:54,269
this you're okay I'm okay with my I'm

1504
01:00:56,749 --> 01:00:54,959
okay really

1505
01:00:59,029 --> 01:00:56,759
yeah you're fine that you've helped move

1506
01:01:00,620 --> 01:00:59,039
aerospace propulsion in in the

1507
01:01:02,539 --> 01:01:00,630
theoretical side of this whole thing in

1508
01:01:04,370 --> 01:01:02,549
that's right in fashion and I inferred

1509
01:01:05,929 --> 01:01:04,380
no resentments people say oh don't you

1510
01:01:07,549 --> 01:01:05,939
don't you think he's making a lot of

1511
01:01:09,679 --> 01:01:07,559
patents on this I said look I don't care

1512
01:01:12,679 --> 01:01:09,689
I didn't do this for money I wanted to

1513
01:01:14,419 --> 01:01:12,689
help humankind get into space I believe

1514
01:01:15,889 --> 01:01:14,429
that if some of the astronauts will tell

1515
01:01:18,349 --> 01:01:15,899
you they had an epiphany when they were

1516
01:01:19,699 --> 01:01:18,359
flying out there and looking at space

1517
01:01:21,949 --> 01:01:19,709
beyond the atmosphere and looking down

1518
01:01:23,749 --> 01:01:21,959
at the earth I think that the more we of

1519
01:01:25,909 --> 01:01:23,759
this planet see infinity the more we

1520
01:01:28,489 --> 01:01:25,919
realized in fact how small we are

1521
01:01:31,370 --> 01:01:28,499
and we begin to take a hopefully a more

1522
01:01:33,319 --> 01:01:31,380
benign cosmological view of humankind

1523
01:01:35,719 --> 01:01:33,329
and in fact of the universe at large

1524
01:01:37,669 --> 01:01:35,729
that was my intent from the time I was a

1525
01:01:40,279 --> 01:01:37,679
kid and I only felt I was helping to

1526
01:01:43,249 --> 01:01:40,289
fill this in giving this to Professor

1527
01:01:44,839 --> 01:01:43,259
maribo glad I did and I I'm not

1528
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:44,849
interested in making red cent off of it

1529
01:01:48,849 --> 01:01:47,729
so you're a team player you're a team

1530
01:01:51,489 --> 01:01:48,859
player

1531
01:01:53,170 --> 01:01:51,499
you're not you're not into this subject

1532
01:01:55,209 --> 01:01:53,180
for fame and glory you're into it to

1533
01:01:56,620 --> 01:01:55,219
help further our knowledge and right

1534
01:01:57,999 --> 01:01:56,630
yeah I want to bring this little thing

1535
01:01:59,440 --> 01:01:58,009
glory I would have published this a long

1536
01:02:01,150 --> 01:01:59,450
time ago you know and tried to sell

1537
01:02:03,069 --> 01:02:01,160
books and video tapes and so on and so

1538
01:02:04,779 --> 01:02:03,079
forth I'm not interested really it'd be

1539
01:02:06,910 --> 01:02:04,789
nice though of course if the government

1540
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:06,920
was more forthcoming about space travel

1541
01:02:11,259 --> 01:02:09,410
the fact that our space program has Lang

1542
01:02:12,789 --> 01:02:11,269
which for so many years so you can have

1543
01:02:15,359 --> 01:02:12,799
all the developments in the world growth

1544
01:02:17,739 --> 01:02:15,369
they're not going to put money into

1545
01:02:21,009 --> 01:02:17,749
increasing the frequency of space travel

1546
01:02:23,650 --> 01:02:21,019
moving to more advanced technologies you

1547
01:02:26,589 --> 01:02:23,660
have to wonder where we have a lot more

1548
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:26,599
to discuss we have Ray Stanford we have

1549
01:02:31,769 --> 01:02:29,119
Chris Lambright the book is called X

1550
01:02:35,620 --> 01:02:31,779
descending and we're focusing on how

1551
01:02:38,049 --> 01:02:35,630
aerospace technology was impacted by the

1552
01:02:40,269 --> 01:02:38,059
film of UFOs taken by race Stanford

1553
01:02:48,609 --> 01:02:40,279
you're with Jean Steinberg and Chris

1554
01:02:50,349 --> 01:02:48,619
O'Brien you're in America so here's what

1555
01:02:53,289 --> 01:02:50,359
happened I was placing an order online

1556
01:02:55,749 --> 01:02:53,299
the site went down it just stopped

1557
01:02:57,549 --> 01:02:55,759
responding it took hours before it

1558
01:02:59,289 --> 01:02:57,559
returned but I'd already placed the

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01:03:01,870 --> 01:02:59,299
order with another company if your site

1560
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goes down you could lose business and if

1561
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you have a business or personal site

1562
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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

1563
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1567
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1568
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01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:54,890
if you have a comment or question about

1656
01:07:02,490 --> 01:06:58,640
the podcast send it to news at the para

1657
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:02,500
cast com that's news at the para cast

1658
01:07:08,860 --> 01:07:06,050
dot-com and if you'd like to catch up on

1659
01:07:11,950 --> 01:07:08,870
past episodes we have hundreds of shows

1660
01:07:17,010 --> 01:07:11,960
for you to download direct from the para

1661
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:17,020
cast com that's the para cast dot-com or

1662
01:07:24,490 --> 01:07:22,130
check us out at iTunes we continue with

1663
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:24,500
Jean Steinberg Chris O'Brien a second

1664
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:27,290
Chris Lambright race stand for the book

1665
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:29,930
is X descending Chris you want to pick

1666
01:07:34,180 --> 01:07:31,850
up on the questioning we have one

1667
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:34,190
question here that relates to you know

1668
01:07:37,150 --> 01:07:35,690
the the first part of the show that

1669
01:07:39,820 --> 01:07:37,160
we're talking about and someone just

1670
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:39,830
pointed out that you know the term

1671
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:42,770
aerospace let me get it here aerospace

1672
01:07:49,690 --> 01:07:46,160
propulsion is a little bit as son of a

1673
01:07:51,970 --> 01:07:49,700
skunk one of our forum posters puts it

1674
01:07:54,130 --> 01:07:51,980
the term aerospace propulsion in more

1675
01:07:55,180 --> 01:07:54,140
especially the word aerospace is a very

1676
01:07:57,010 --> 01:07:55,190
broad brush

1677
01:07:59,350 --> 01:07:57,020
are we talking aircraft propulsion

1678
01:08:01,630 --> 01:07:59,360
spacecraft propulsion or all the above

1679
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:01,640
not now I think what we've been talking

1680
01:08:04,810 --> 01:08:04,490
about is is analogous to the prow of a

1681
01:08:07,150 --> 01:08:04,820
boat

1682
01:08:09,100 --> 01:08:07,160
cutting waves to create less friction so

1683
01:08:11,860 --> 01:08:09,110
our boat can go forward in water if you

1684
01:08:14,260 --> 01:08:11,870
apply that particular concept of the air

1685
01:08:17,650 --> 01:08:14,270
spike in the atmosphere it's almost like

1686
01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:17,660
you're creating a prow of a boat in the

1687
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:20,510
atmosphere that negates sonic booms and

1688
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:22,370
allows the craft to move through the

1689
01:08:26,140 --> 01:08:24,560
atmosphere with little or no no

1690
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:26,150
friction I just wanted to kind of

1691
01:08:31,900 --> 01:08:28,370
underscore that so how would you

1692
01:08:34,150 --> 01:08:31,910
describe leak Mira Bo's Gestalt and

1693
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:34,160
realizing all of a sudden boom I have

1694
01:08:37,870 --> 01:08:35,930
this new way of looking at this what we

1695
01:08:39,309 --> 01:08:37,880
are what are we talking about here how

1696
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:39,319
would you encapsulate this field of

1697
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:41,600
study you know in a term okay you're

1698
01:08:47,860 --> 01:08:44,290
asking me right standard yeah sure right

1699
01:08:49,329 --> 01:08:47,870
okay all right all right let me let me

1700
01:08:51,790 --> 01:08:49,339
make them clear I think some of the

1701
01:08:55,090 --> 01:08:51,800
listeners may not understand this is

1702
01:08:57,460 --> 01:08:55,100
this is not a matter of just not

1703
01:09:02,110 --> 01:08:57,470
greeting a shock wave it is a matter of

1704
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:02,120
saving not a lot of wear and tear on the

1705
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:04,970
spacecraft but it is more importantly

1706
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:07,370
it's a matter that if you don't have

1707
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:11,690
this type of device you are creating and

1708
01:09:17,020 --> 01:09:14,330
pushing a hypersonic shockwave occurs

1709
01:09:18,910 --> 01:09:17,030
when the atoms or the molecules the

1710
01:09:20,770 --> 01:09:18,920
atmosphere do not tend to move out of

1711
01:09:23,470 --> 01:09:20,780
the way they become compressed and what

1712
01:09:26,290 --> 01:09:23,480
you're doing if you don't have this you

1713
01:09:28,329 --> 01:09:26,300
are pushing thousands of tons of

1714
01:09:30,190 --> 01:09:28,339
atmosphere that's why it was so hard for

1715
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:30,200
humankind to even break the sound

1716
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:31,850
barrier originally because you are

1717
01:09:36,610 --> 01:09:34,730
pushing a water solid basically almost

1718
01:09:38,140 --> 01:09:36,620
solid wall of atmosphere the thing that

1719
01:09:40,780 --> 01:09:38,150
hits you as a sonic boom on the ground

1720
01:09:42,940 --> 01:09:40,790
you're pushing that with this you're not

1721
01:09:44,710 --> 01:09:42,950
only not pushing it the important thing

1722
01:09:46,750 --> 01:09:44,720
is you're not creating it

1723
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:46,760
you are electrifying it ahead of you

1724
01:09:52,090 --> 01:09:49,370
expanding it to the sides around a

1725
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,100
relatively evacuated column and moving

1726
01:09:56,170 --> 01:09:54,080
it around you and closing it properly in

1727
01:09:58,000 --> 01:09:56,180
a smaller fashion where you don't where

1728
01:09:58,990 --> 01:09:58,010
you create a proper condition that you

1729
01:10:00,640 --> 01:09:59,000
know what you're creating pressure

1730
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:00,650
behind the craft which actually helps

1731
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:02,960
push it forward while having virtually

1732
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:05,090
no resistance in front and you're saving

1733
01:10:09,850 --> 01:10:08,690
a vast amount of money and feel wherever

1734
01:10:12,700 --> 01:10:09,860
the fee was coming from the ground or

1735
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:12,710
within the craft because it will go at

1736
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:15,170
least according to even the early phase

1737
01:10:19,390 --> 01:10:17,690
of this research at Rinzler ten times

1738
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:19,400
more efficiently with a tenth of the

1739
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:20,960
energy that would be required if it were

1740
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:22,970
pushing the shockwave so this is

1741
01:10:27,580 --> 01:10:25,370
obviously what Mirabeau had in mind this

1742
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:27,590
is what I am happy and proud to say that

1743
01:10:33,970 --> 01:10:31,250
I gave him the idea for and someone

1744
01:10:35,530 --> 01:10:33,980
wrote the author Chris Lambright the

1745
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:35,540
other day someone sent an indirect

1746
01:10:38,350 --> 01:10:38,000
communication to him a guy sitting well

1747
01:10:40,209 --> 01:10:38,360
you know

1748
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:40,219
how can he claim that he opportunity by

1749
01:10:45,010 --> 01:10:42,530
making invention the Polaris missle had

1750
01:10:46,810 --> 01:10:45,020
a physical spike in in front of it at a

1751
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:46,820
certain stage so we already had the idea

1752
01:10:51,340 --> 01:10:49,280
that's a physical spike it's my comment

1753
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:51,350
on that was that Flash Gordon back in

1754
01:10:54,939 --> 01:10:53,449
the 40s and 50s in the comic strips at a

1755
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:54,949
physical spike in front of his

1756
01:10:58,570 --> 01:10:57,290
spacecraft a kid would know that that's

1757
01:11:00,820 --> 01:10:58,580
supposed to help it get through the

1758
01:11:02,709 --> 01:11:00,830
atmosphere with more efficiency but

1759
01:11:04,780 --> 01:11:02,719
there's a big difference in in saying

1760
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:04,790
that man knew at physical how to create

1761
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:06,320
a physical spike and stick it out in

1762
01:11:10,570 --> 01:11:08,330
front of a craft then saying he knew how

1763
01:11:12,850 --> 01:11:10,580
to electrify the atmosphere for 30

1764
01:11:14,290 --> 01:11:12,860
diameters out in front of him and move

1765
01:11:16,300 --> 01:11:14,300
it out of the way to where there's

1766
01:11:19,270 --> 01:11:16,310
virtually no resistance whatsoever and

1767
01:11:22,270 --> 01:11:19,280
it also keeps down not only cost but

1768
01:11:24,370 --> 01:11:22,280
ablative heat of the craft so this is

1769
01:11:27,580 --> 01:11:24,380
what Mirabeau very justifiably had in

1770
01:11:29,470 --> 01:11:27,590
mind and the secret of which I feel for

1771
01:11:31,570 --> 01:11:29,480
sure he learned from what I showed him

1772
01:11:33,310 --> 01:11:31,580
because he thanked me three times for

1773
01:11:35,129 --> 01:11:33,320
giving in this information well let's

1774
01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:35,139
hope that something like this somehow

1775
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:38,239
influences the future progression of the

1776
01:11:43,870 --> 01:11:40,400
space program beyond where we are now do

1777
01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:43,880
you have any optimism at all ray about a

1778
01:11:49,149 --> 01:11:47,270
renewal of space travel of attempts of

1779
01:11:50,859 --> 01:11:49,159
space travel it seems that the space

1780
01:11:53,020 --> 01:11:50,869
program has gone the wrong direction

1781
01:11:54,669 --> 01:11:53,030
well that you're right and I'm glad you

1782
01:11:56,649 --> 01:11:54,679
brought that because there have been all

1783
01:11:58,359 --> 01:11:56,659
this these my opinion myths about we

1784
01:12:01,000 --> 01:11:58,369
have duplicated evil and technology I'm

1785
01:12:02,830 --> 01:12:01,010
sorry but you know just a few months ago

1786
01:12:04,660 --> 01:12:02,840
my wife and I heard one of these black

1787
01:12:07,540 --> 01:12:04,670
project craft to fly over here so high

1788
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:07,550
we couldn't spot it but it was making so

1789
01:12:11,229 --> 01:12:09,530
much noise that we thought it was going

1790
01:12:14,649 --> 01:12:11,239
to break the windows out of our big old

1791
01:12:16,930 --> 01:12:14,659
house here and they are not using ET

1792
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:16,940
technology and the thing is even about

1793
01:12:20,649 --> 01:12:19,040
this thing that I showed professor

1794
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:20,659
Maribel and have showed many others it's

1795
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:22,850
still a matter of our learning how to

1796
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:25,210
generate it officially in front

1797
01:12:30,910 --> 01:12:28,310
efficiently in front of the craft we

1798
01:12:33,490 --> 01:12:30,920
know the secret and it's been tested in

1799
01:12:35,740 --> 01:12:33,500
in a very primitive way with great

1800
01:12:38,649 --> 01:12:35,750
efficiency in the hypersonic wind tunnel

1801
01:12:41,169 --> 01:12:38,659
at Rinzler but it's still a matter of

1802
01:12:43,930 --> 01:12:41,179
actually making this thing having the

1803
01:12:47,050 --> 01:12:43,940
energy source inside a vehicle to

1804
01:12:49,359 --> 01:12:47,060
produce a good beam ahead so the gift is

1805
01:12:51,879 --> 01:12:49,369
there it's just a matter now of making

1806
01:12:52,210 --> 01:12:51,889
it practical but item regarding renewing

1807
01:12:55,060 --> 01:12:52,220
this

1808
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:55,070
it's obvious we don't have other types

1809
01:12:59,850 --> 01:12:58,010
of propulsive adjuncts very much or we

1810
01:13:02,650 --> 01:12:59,860
wouldn't be using still this

1811
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,660
overreaction propulsion that we do see

1812
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:04,400
in black project craft and I have

1813
01:13:07,150 --> 01:13:05,450
photographed some of these things

1814
01:13:09,130 --> 01:13:07,160
involved a license bike project craft

1815
01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:09,140
knew what they were at the time but what

1816
01:13:12,850 --> 01:13:11,450
I'm hoping is that hopefully in my

1817
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:12,860
lifetime I don't know if I have many

1818
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:15,170
years left but there will be a turn

1819
01:13:20,350 --> 01:13:17,330
toward looking more and more it for

1820
01:13:22,570 --> 01:13:20,360
example as Chris Lambright said I have a

1821
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:22,580
lot of stuff in these films that is in

1822
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:24,560
many ways a lot more amazing exciting

1823
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:26,930
and potentially useful to science that's

1824
01:13:30,940 --> 01:13:28,850
what I want to do with this I don't want

1825
01:13:34,150 --> 01:13:30,950
to you know try to publish another UFO

1826
01:13:36,670 --> 01:13:34,160
book necessarily I want it to be milked

1827
01:13:39,070 --> 01:13:36,680
scientifically analyzed in a way that we

1828
01:13:40,660 --> 01:13:39,080
can invigorate a space program otherwise

1829
01:13:43,710 --> 01:13:40,670
it looks like our space program is

1830
01:13:46,300 --> 01:13:43,720
pretty well stuck in the 1950s and 60s

1831
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:46,310
reaction propulsion mud let me make a

1832
01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:48,080
couple of observations if I can

1833
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:50,510
regarding the technological aspects of

1834
01:13:56,020 --> 01:13:52,400
this you'll see that I mentioned a

1835
01:13:59,230 --> 01:13:56,030
patent that was filed and given to Kevin

1836
01:14:01,450 --> 01:13:59,240
Cramer who is another engineer and I

1837
01:14:04,090 --> 01:14:01,460
believe he's from Arizona and in which

1838
01:14:06,250 --> 01:14:04,100
he describes this filament in laser it's

1839
01:14:07,510 --> 01:14:06,260
an actual actually it almost sounds

1840
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:07,520
identical so kind of what we're

1841
01:14:11,740 --> 01:14:09,050
discussing here but the idea of being

1842
01:14:14,290 --> 01:14:11,750
able to put energy along a narrow beam

1843
01:14:16,780 --> 01:14:14,300
out in front in creating this low

1844
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:16,790
density corridor that as it collapses

1845
01:14:21,370 --> 01:14:19,520
behind you it adds thrust the reason I

1846
01:14:23,650 --> 01:14:21,380
mentioned that is because not only is

1847
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:23,660
there another person after the fact

1848
01:14:28,390 --> 01:14:26,000
after from after Mirabal who's patented

1849
01:14:30,970 --> 01:14:28,400
something which they clearly knew to be

1850
01:14:32,410 --> 01:14:30,980
new and had not been put into use or

1851
01:14:34,540 --> 01:14:32,420
actually was not even functional just

1852
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,550
yet and I exchanged some emails with him

1853
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:36,080
and I said I was really interested in it

1854
01:14:39,970 --> 01:14:38,090
because I think I had seen something

1855
01:14:41,770 --> 01:14:39,980
similar to this I was referring to race

1856
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:41,780
film you know in a film that was taken

1857
01:14:45,580 --> 01:14:43,610
several years earlier and of course his

1858
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:45,590
comment was boy it's kind of depressing

1859
01:14:49,060 --> 01:14:47,090
to think that here he filed a patent for

1860
01:14:52,180 --> 01:14:49,070
something that now he hears was already

1861
01:14:54,070 --> 01:14:52,190
in production but that's simply another

1862
01:14:56,650 --> 01:14:54,080
little factor I think that suggests that

1863
01:14:59,470 --> 01:14:56,660
what ray films was not something that

1864
01:15:00,850 --> 01:14:59,480
was based on technology that was already

1865
01:15:02,530 --> 01:15:00,860
at least to the point of where we were

1866
01:15:04,210 --> 01:15:02,540
in production and producing it and

1867
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:04,220
flying it around the other point I want

1868
01:15:08,350 --> 01:15:06,290
to make was if you listen to what ray

1869
01:15:11,170 --> 01:15:08,360
described about initially taking the

1870
01:15:14,470 --> 01:15:11,180
film the last of these objects the one

1871
01:15:17,380 --> 01:15:14,480
that I've discuss in my book slowed down

1872
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:17,390
and waited for the for the final object

1873
01:15:21,930 --> 01:15:19,850
to catch up to it before it moved at

1874
01:15:24,940 --> 01:15:21,940
least they're being polite to each other

1875
01:15:26,410 --> 01:15:24,950
I'm not making the point I understand

1876
01:15:28,930 --> 01:15:26,420
the point we're talking to Chris

1877
01:15:30,610 --> 01:15:28,940
Lambright we're talking to Ray Stanford

1878
01:15:39,730 --> 01:15:30,620
with gene Steinberg and Chris O'Brien

1879
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:39,740
you're in America's number one source

1880
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for independent talk radio for over a

1881
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decade

1882
01:15:51,340 --> 01:15:48,950
we are the gcn radio network Ray Perkins

1883
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:51,350
a reclusive veteran burned out from the

1884
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Gulf War lives tortured by relentless

1885
01:15:59,260 --> 01:15:57,050
perplexing nightmares nightmares of a

1886
01:16:01,090 --> 01:15:59,270
horrific battle in deep space and of a

1887
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mysterious woman's suffering and agony

1888
01:16:07,950 --> 01:16:04,220
for her devastated world a woman not yet

1889
01:16:11,380 --> 01:16:07,960
born calling across centuries to him

1890
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:11,390
then a coincidence leads him to his

1891
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:14,090
destiny his chance to alter the universe

1892
01:16:18,250 --> 01:16:16,640
attack of the Rockies

1893
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the former fiction editor for Star Wars

1894
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and Indiana Jones Robert Simpson writes

1895
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the soul of the novel attack of the

1896
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Rockies

1897
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lies in its heart and passion for

1898
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building a convincing tale of a love

1899
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that spans the galaxy a thrilling storm

1900
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attack of the rocket is available now

1901
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read a simple chapter and get a special

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Rocko is calm that's our Ock o IDs calm

1905
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1906
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1907
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know that murky water purification

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1911
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thousands of satisfied customers the

1912
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1914
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murky light systems include a set of

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1916
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1917
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by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

1918
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cysts and parasites to non detectable

1919
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levels and remove harmful chemicals such

1920
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as herbicides and pesticides ordered

1921
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1924
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order free of charge with the purchase

1925
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of a burr key light the burka guy is

1926
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also offering a set of fluoride and

1927
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arsenic filters for only $39.99 that's

1928
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over 30 percent off the retail price

1929
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1930
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1931
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1932
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1933
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online at go Berkey com

1934
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let's go Berkey dot-com today that's

1935
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what it sounds like when a burglar kicks

1936
01:17:57,050 --> 01:17:55,770
in the door of a dark house that looks

1937
01:17:58,850 --> 01:17:57,060
like no one is home

1938
01:18:00,410 --> 01:17:58,860
don't let your home be the next target

1939
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:00,420
make it look like someone is home

1940
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:03,120
watching television with fake TV fake TV

1941
01:18:07,310 --> 01:18:05,130
is a small electronic device that makes

1942
01:18:08,780 --> 01:18:07,320
the same light as a real television so

1943
01:18:11,450 --> 01:18:08,790
from outside it looks like someone is

1944
01:18:13,250 --> 01:18:11,460
home watching TV fake TV plugs in just

1945
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:13,260
like a lamp on a timer but is far more

1946
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:15,600
convincing to burglars fake TV deters

1947
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:17,970
burglars cost far less than an alarm and

1948
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is highly recommended by numerous police

1949
01:18:24,050 --> 01:18:21,840
departments used at anytime you're away

1950
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from home to order your fake TV for only

1951
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thirty four ninety five go to fake

1952
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tv.com or call one eight seven seven

1953
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1954
01:18:36,350 --> 01:18:34,290
only 29.95 so get one for you and one

1955
01:18:38,540 --> 01:18:36,360
for a loved one for safety security and

1956
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peace of mind for both of you call eight

1957
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seven seven five f a ke TV or go to fete

1958
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tv.com fake tv.com

1959
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the burglar deterrent we all know the

1960
01:18:53,780 --> 01:18:51,630
importance of having storable foods but

1961
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:53,790
what about when the food runs out what

1962
01:18:57,050 --> 01:18:55,050
then

1963
01:18:58,610 --> 01:18:57,060
for real food independence you need a

1964
01:19:00,860 --> 01:18:58,620
supply of non-hybrid seeds

1965
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introducing the survival Seed Vault from

1966
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1967
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1968
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1969
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1970
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1971
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food independence and the survival Seed

1972
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Vault includes detailed planting and

1973
01:19:19,130 --> 01:19:17,550
seed saving instructions imagine the

1974
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barter power you'll have when the food

1975
01:19:24,140 --> 01:19:22,500
supply does collapse right now save $9

1976
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instantly when you buy three or more

1977
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survival seed vaults from my Patriot

1978
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supply calm same-day shipping on all

1979
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orders plus free shipping on orders over

1980
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$49 call 866 two two nine zero nine two

1981
01:19:40,010 --> 01:19:37,350
seven that's eight six six two two nine

1982
01:19:42,020 --> 01:19:40,020
zero nine two seven or discover more

1983
01:19:43,220 --> 01:19:42,030
emergency preparedness products at my

1984
01:20:09,710 --> 01:19:43,230
Patriot supply.com

1985
01:20:11,900 --> 01:20:09,720
that's my Patriot supply we have Chris

1986
01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:11,910
Lambright we have Chris O'Brien

1987
01:20:16,660 --> 01:20:14,400
we have Ray Stanford and Jean Steinberg

1988
01:20:20,780 --> 01:20:16,670
you're in the power cast the book is

1989
01:20:24,410 --> 01:20:20,790
known as X descending and in part this

1990
01:20:28,370 --> 01:20:24,420
covers and talks about the UFOs

1991
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:28,380
photographed by Ray Stanford how they

1992
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:29,250
were used

1993
01:20:35,210 --> 01:20:32,250
apparently in advancing aerospace

1994
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:35,220
technology so just to kind of summarize

1995
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:38,370
before we go into some more topics Chris

1996
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:41,730
Lambright where do we take it from here

1997
01:20:49,340 --> 01:20:44,730
where is space travel gone since this

1998
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:49,350
with the improvement of this development

1999
01:20:55,070 --> 01:20:51,330
well if nothing else I think it's

2000
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:55,080
notable that to this point either even

2001
01:20:58,520 --> 01:20:56,250
though there's a lot of research being

2002
01:21:00,850 --> 01:20:58,530
done and Japan and other places and

2003
01:21:03,770 --> 01:21:00,860
ideas for the use of this kind of

2004
01:21:06,980 --> 01:21:03,780
depositing energy in ahead of a moving

2005
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:06,990
body that we don't yet see anything like

2006
01:21:10,340 --> 01:21:08,490
what Ray had on film

2007
01:21:12,830 --> 01:21:10,350
we don't see any even even Mira Bo's

2008
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:12,840
having gone back a few years ago to to

2009
01:21:17,180 --> 01:21:14,970
do some work at the Air Force I guess it

2010
01:21:19,670 --> 01:21:17,190
was out at the white sand on his light

2011
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:19,680
craft was still using the model that he

2012
01:21:24,290 --> 01:21:21,570
initially had intended for shining

2013
01:21:28,010 --> 01:21:24,300
lasers beneath it nobody to this date

2014
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:28,020
has demonstrated a practical use of a

2015
01:21:33,110 --> 01:21:30,930
energy beam out in front to do the types

2016
01:21:35,450 --> 01:21:33,120
of things that ray is just you know had

2017
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:35,460
it on film yeah there we know of yeah

2018
01:21:40,670 --> 01:21:38,040
well there you go we know of of course

2019
01:21:43,010 --> 01:21:40,680
professor Mirabeau has his light correct

2020
01:21:44,780 --> 01:21:43,020
technologies international corporation

2021
01:21:45,410 --> 01:21:44,790
that he set up and I hope he does very

2022
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:45,420
well with it

2023
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:48,480
but my aim was is to get the information

2024
01:21:53,450 --> 01:21:51,360
out there I mean I believe I waited a

2025
01:21:55,700 --> 01:21:53,460
substantially long time saying nothing

2026
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:55,710
and I'm with Ray you know I'm not

2027
01:22:01,280 --> 01:21:57,570
totally comfortable with the idea of

2028
01:22:02,750 --> 01:22:01,290
thinking that I'm outing somebody I did

2029
01:22:04,460 --> 01:22:02,760
a lot of soul-searching on whether I

2030
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:04,470
should say anything about it but in the

2031
01:22:09,170 --> 01:22:06,930
long run I think Ray's film and the

2032
01:22:10,820 --> 01:22:09,180
Benowitz film are evidence that there is

2033
01:22:12,440 --> 01:22:10,830
something else going on here that needs

2034
01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:12,450
to be addressed and clearly in the case

2035
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:14,940
of rays film there's the technology here

2036
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:17,010
is that at least like maybe like you

2037
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:18,690
were saying we're not being told about

2038
01:22:23,420 --> 01:22:21,330
so where the technology originates I

2039
01:22:28,100 --> 01:22:23,430
hope we'll find out but the point is I

2040
01:22:30,530 --> 01:22:28,110
think I am sure yeah okay I want to

2041
01:22:34,820 --> 01:22:30,540
commend Chris because he has done a

2042
01:22:38,090 --> 01:22:34,830
prodigious job in ferreting out the

2043
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:38,100
research that seems to have occurred

2044
01:22:44,540 --> 01:22:41,010
that did in fact occur after Mira Bo's

2045
01:22:46,460 --> 01:22:44,550
visit here and relating it to what may

2046
01:22:49,790 --> 01:22:46,470
have happened as a result of Mara Bo's

2047
01:22:52,130 --> 01:22:49,800
visit he went into detail he had worked

2048
01:22:54,530 --> 01:22:52,140
overtime on the internet and anywhere he

2049
01:22:56,060 --> 01:22:54,540
could get information I don't think

2050
01:22:59,150 --> 01:22:56,070
anything has been as thoroughly

2051
01:23:01,160 --> 01:22:59,160
investigated in UFOs hardly as Chris did

2052
01:23:02,930 --> 01:23:01,170
in trying to check in to the background

2053
01:23:06,830 --> 01:23:02,940
and to see whether this kind of device

2054
01:23:08,570 --> 01:23:06,840
existed before I filmed these things and

2055
01:23:11,390 --> 01:23:08,580
I think it's to his credit that he did

2056
01:23:14,750 --> 01:23:11,400
not take something on faith but went and

2057
01:23:17,480 --> 01:23:14,760
and and really did very hard work his

2058
01:23:19,730 --> 01:23:17,490
homework on this this particular issue

2059
01:23:21,440 --> 01:23:19,740
which is a big and important issue and I

2060
01:23:22,460 --> 01:23:21,450
want to conclude this statement by

2061
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:22,470
saying that

2062
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:24,450
the principal has been shown at

2063
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:26,250
Rentschler and in other places that

2064
01:23:29,900 --> 01:23:28,290
chris mentions in his book now the

2065
01:23:31,790 --> 01:23:29,910
principle that we could in theory do

2066
01:23:35,890 --> 01:23:31,800
this there's a big difference in showing

2067
01:23:38,420 --> 01:23:35,900
on a small scale in the laboratory in a

2068
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:38,430
hypersonic tunnel locally with

2069
01:23:43,850 --> 01:23:40,890
terrestrial easy to access power

2070
01:23:46,250 --> 01:23:43,860
supplies that the principle works the

2071
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:46,260
big difference here is getting the

2072
01:23:53,210 --> 01:23:50,730
energy level to are inside of a craft to

2073
01:23:55,970 --> 01:23:53,220
where this can be done at a practical

2074
01:23:58,280 --> 01:23:55,980
level in our atmosphere on a larger

2075
01:24:00,260 --> 01:23:58,290
scale let's distinguish the two the

2076
01:24:02,540 --> 01:24:00,270
theory has been established now in the

2077
01:24:04,910 --> 01:24:02,550
lab our insular and others as chris

2078
01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:04,920
describes free in the book but the

2079
01:24:10,370 --> 01:24:07,500
practicality of having the energy that's

2080
01:24:12,830 --> 01:24:10,380
the big thing is getting the energy to

2081
01:24:15,620 --> 01:24:12,840
in to be there by beam or inside the

2082
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:15,630
craft and projecting it that's the part

2083
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:17,730
that seems to have been the problem so

2084
01:24:22,130 --> 01:24:19,920
let's distinguish the two things the

2085
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:22,140
principle is sound it's a matter of

2086
01:24:26,150 --> 01:24:24,090
applying it at our present level of

2087
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:26,160
energy sources the question from one of

2088
01:24:30,350 --> 01:24:27,810
our listeners and basically I'm going to

2089
01:24:32,810 --> 01:24:30,360
paraphrase the question this comes from

2090
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:32,820
sentry who's been opposed to gear for

2091
01:24:37,820 --> 01:24:35,570
just over a year there's been a recent

2092
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:37,830
discussion on the pair Castform

2093
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:40,530
of Kelly Johnson's UFO sightings but

2094
01:24:44,900 --> 01:24:42,480
whether or not any advances in Lockheed

2095
01:24:47,630 --> 01:24:44,910
can be traced to them is unproven I've

2096
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:47,640
put this out to you ray and Chris Chris

2097
01:24:50,900 --> 01:24:49,170
has done an incredible amount of

2098
01:24:53,510 --> 01:24:50,910
research into this whole subject and I

2099
01:24:56,030 --> 01:24:53,520
really commend you I'm really odd at the

2100
01:24:58,160 --> 01:24:56,040
the amount of time that it must have

2101
01:25:01,760 --> 01:24:58,170
taken these to dig in and drill down on

2102
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:01,770
some of these you know very that's what

2103
01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:03,330
Eric's subject matter and coming up to

2104
01:25:07,970 --> 01:25:05,490
the amount of documentation that you did

2105
01:25:11,180 --> 01:25:07,980
really my hats off to you and what do

2106
01:25:13,850 --> 01:25:11,190
you guys think have we seen any advances

2107
01:25:16,580 --> 01:25:13,860
spurred on by the study of UFOs I mean

2108
01:25:18,170 --> 01:25:16,590
this is one example do you think there

2109
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:18,180
are any others that are part of the

2110
01:25:24,440 --> 01:25:20,130
public domain already that's a tough

2111
01:25:26,060 --> 01:25:24,450
question because I am firmly convinced

2112
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:26,070
that if you really want to keep

2113
01:25:30,740 --> 01:25:28,650
something secret you can certainly do so

2114
01:25:33,260 --> 01:25:30,750
and if I was going to put some

2115
01:25:35,540 --> 01:25:33,270
technology into something that I'm

2116
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:35,550
building I would make sure that on the

2117
01:25:37,910 --> 01:25:36,210
outside

2118
01:25:40,580 --> 01:25:37,920
least it looked like something you would

2119
01:25:42,590 --> 01:25:40,590
believe I could build so whether the

2120
01:25:43,940 --> 01:25:42,600
technology is inside of something that

2121
01:25:45,950 --> 01:25:43,950
looks like a conventional aircraft

2122
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:45,960
design there that's the rub

2123
01:25:49,790 --> 01:25:48,000
you're not going to defeat you having a

2124
01:25:54,170 --> 01:25:49,800
like the b-2 bomber having an

2125
01:25:56,150 --> 01:25:54,180
antigravity exactly how do you hear that

2126
01:25:58,430 --> 01:25:56,160
but or you have no truck with it because

2127
01:26:00,350 --> 01:25:58,440
what can you do I mean unless unless

2128
01:26:02,690 --> 01:26:00,360
somebody gave you documentation and you

2129
01:26:05,540 --> 01:26:02,700
knew someone to speak to which in my

2130
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:05,550
opinion that's kind of the one of the

2131
01:26:09,170 --> 01:26:06,810
reasons that I wanted to use these two

2132
01:26:11,660 --> 01:26:09,180
films there are people alive today and

2133
01:26:12,830 --> 01:26:11,670
there are their names go talk to them

2134
01:26:14,390 --> 01:26:12,840
there are people that could be called to

2135
01:26:17,150 --> 01:26:14,400
account not only for what happened to

2136
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:17,160
Paul bennewitz but people who clearly

2137
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:19,170
know a lot of to be said about what Ray

2138
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:21,120
has on film people he's not named yet

2139
01:26:24,260 --> 01:26:22,530
and I he's mentioned some things that

2140
01:26:26,770 --> 01:26:24,270
are coming up that I've not you know I

2141
01:26:30,770 --> 01:26:26,780
take you know I'd lead to him to say but

2142
01:26:32,570 --> 01:26:30,780
but as far as technology well let me put

2143
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:32,580
it this way if with my limited resources

2144
01:26:37,580 --> 01:26:35,010
I can at least find what I found enough

2145
01:26:39,590 --> 01:26:37,590
to compel me to believe there is this

2146
01:26:42,050 --> 01:26:39,600
out there whoever owns the technology

2147
01:26:44,390 --> 01:26:42,060
who knows I think there was one

2148
01:26:46,310 --> 01:26:44,400
reference it was either too been rich or

2149
01:26:48,170 --> 01:26:46,320
maybe Kelly Johnson you know that some

2150
01:26:51,410 --> 01:26:48,180
of these are we made some of them they

2151
01:26:53,150 --> 01:26:51,420
made whoever they would be but but the

2152
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:53,160
point is if if it was my limited

2153
01:26:57,500 --> 01:26:55,290
resources I can go this far and look at

2154
01:27:00,200 --> 01:26:57,510
what Ray's able to do with camera and a

2155
01:27:02,300 --> 01:27:00,210
good eye and being on top of it in a

2156
01:27:04,459 --> 01:27:02,310
good analytical mind too I might add

2157
01:27:07,100 --> 01:27:04,469
well thank you listen to him you can

2158
01:27:09,380 --> 01:27:07,110
tell but great obviously with the money

2159
01:27:10,580 --> 01:27:09,390
other people must have far more if I was

2160
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:10,590
the air force of the government or

2161
01:27:15,380 --> 01:27:13,010
somebody who can say what they've got

2162
01:27:17,390 --> 01:27:15,390
okay well you brought up Paul bennewitz

2163
01:27:20,450 --> 01:27:17,400
and we need to dovetail into that whole

2164
01:27:22,820 --> 01:27:20,460
part of your book which is just like the

2165
01:27:25,340 --> 01:27:22,830
the portion about Ray's working in Lake

2166
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:25,350
maribo this is really fascinating

2167
01:27:31,550 --> 01:27:28,650
material as well what it give us a

2168
01:27:33,260 --> 01:27:31,560
little quick thumbnail sketch of some

2169
01:27:35,390 --> 01:27:33,270
background information of how you got

2170
01:27:37,220 --> 01:27:35,400
involved in the bennewitz case and why

2171
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:37,230
this particular film in series of

2172
01:27:43,550 --> 01:27:40,890
photographs compelled you to really dig

2173
01:27:45,470 --> 01:27:43,560
deep and and and really uncover some

2174
01:27:48,110 --> 01:27:45,480
very very I think very important

2175
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:48,120
information about the benefits case well

2176
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:49,610
clearly I've been

2177
01:27:55,490 --> 01:27:51,570
interested in this subject for a long

2178
01:27:57,590 --> 01:27:55,500
long long time back in the early 80s in

2179
01:28:01,040 --> 01:27:57,600
particular here in the Texas of course I

2180
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:01,050
had I knew Tommy bland very well he of

2181
01:28:04,490 --> 01:28:02,010
course he knows know just about

2182
01:28:05,810 --> 01:28:04,500
everybody and and he and I had worked

2183
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:05,820
very closely together because we lived

2184
01:28:11,380 --> 01:28:08,850
close together and at one point he

2185
01:28:14,150 --> 01:28:11,390
mentioned having heard that some

2186
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:14,160
scientists out in New Mexico was either

2187
01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:16,530
picking up some kind of unusual signals

2188
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:18,960
or had seen some unusual things and of

2189
01:28:22,580 --> 01:28:20,850
course I realized and and then I was in

2190
01:28:24,260 --> 01:28:22,590
the next year so that he's referring he

2191
01:28:27,110 --> 01:28:24,270
had heard through wherever his grapevine

2192
01:28:29,150 --> 01:28:27,120
was that this was Paul bennewitz and of

2193
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:29,160
course like everybody else or like many

2194
01:28:33,140 --> 01:28:31,440
of us many of us didn't really even get

2195
01:28:35,180 --> 01:28:33,150
into this be let alone be aware of it

2196
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:35,190
until probably eighty-three sometimes

2197
01:28:39,050 --> 01:28:37,410
you know after the fact because not much

2198
01:28:40,700 --> 01:28:39,060
had been said if I'm not mistaken

2199
01:28:43,010 --> 01:28:40,710
outside of the appro and maybe the

2200
01:28:45,380 --> 01:28:43,020
little New Mexico's wherever Paul

2201
01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:45,390
bennewitz his local circuit was about

2202
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:48,420
what was truly going on but some were

2203
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:50,730
pretty quickly as I began to hear more

2204
01:28:54,500 --> 01:28:53,010
and more and seeing some of the

2205
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:54,510
documents that were now getting released

2206
01:28:58,070 --> 01:28:56,250
and hearing about who's saying this or

2207
01:29:00,980 --> 01:28:58,080
that and a little more and Richard Doty

2208
01:29:04,010 --> 01:29:00,990
and and what everybody was saying that

2209
01:29:05,810 --> 01:29:04,020
Paul was saying you know and I began to

2210
01:29:07,220 --> 01:29:05,820
realize well and it's one of my own

2211
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:07,230
personal mottos that if all you know is

2212
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:09,090
what someone else told you you don't

2213
01:29:12,530 --> 01:29:10,170
really know anything

2214
01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:12,540
I think crystal brighton has a global a

2215
01:29:17,780 --> 01:29:16,320
man oh yeah and that's not other stories

2216
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:17,790
because then I can drill down on them

2217
01:29:22,700 --> 01:29:20,970
yeah and so at that point I thought if

2218
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:22,710
somebody's calling the Air Force and

2219
01:29:27,380 --> 01:29:25,530
talking about aliens and who knows the

2220
01:29:29,690 --> 01:29:27,390
Air Force is not going to get involved

2221
01:29:31,070 --> 01:29:29,700
that the public relations stand we need

2222
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:31,080
to happen but if that's right but we'll

2223
01:29:35,150 --> 01:29:32,490
get into more of this in a moment

2224
01:29:37,310 --> 01:29:35,160
Chris Lambright and Ray Stanford with

2225
01:29:42,630 --> 01:29:37,320
gene Steinberg Chris O'Brien you're in

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are you tired of searching for great

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talk-radio more important search Noboru

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the awful encyclopedia other books when

2329
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you're listening to the parrot calf with

2330
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:07,410
Jean Steinberg and Chris O'Brien we have

2331
01:34:12,350 --> 01:34:10,530
race Stanford and Chris Lambright now I

2332
01:34:14,540 --> 01:34:12,360
understand that you know a lot of these

2333
01:34:17,180 --> 01:34:14,550
things it represents jargon to most

2334
01:34:19,310 --> 01:34:17,190
people it's something that a lot of

2335
01:34:21,020 --> 01:34:19,320
people are not familiar with because

2336
01:34:23,330 --> 01:34:21,030
what happened with Paul bennewitz

2337
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:23,340
happened a long time ago and other

2338
01:34:28,130 --> 01:34:25,650
galaxies so maybe backtrack Chris

2339
01:34:30,050 --> 01:34:28,140
Lambright and explain who is Paul

2340
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:30,060
bennewitz is he even still alive no I

2341
01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:32,730
believe he passed away back in early to

2342
01:34:37,090 --> 01:34:35,520
believe 2003 perhaps somewhere a few

2343
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:37,100
years a few years ago right

2344
01:34:41,990 --> 01:34:39,690
unfortunately but if you want go and

2345
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:42,000
explain okay Paul bennewitz owned a

2346
01:34:47,780 --> 01:34:44,850
company in Albuquerque New Mexico which

2347
01:34:49,250 --> 01:34:47,790
was virtually across the street from the

2348
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:49,260
ney one of the main gates to Kirtland

2349
01:34:52,580 --> 01:34:49,770
Air Force Base

2350
01:34:55,130 --> 01:34:52,590
and they did a lot of testing built

2351
01:34:57,260 --> 01:34:55,140
testing equipment I believe she made a

2352
01:34:59,480 --> 01:34:57,270
humidity testing or humidity related

2353
01:35:01,520 --> 01:34:59,490
equipment and had a number of contracts

2354
01:35:03,050 --> 01:35:01,530
with more government agencies that I

2355
01:35:05,900 --> 01:35:03,060
even realized that at the time and

2356
01:35:09,230 --> 01:35:05,910
apparently was doing very well within

2357
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:09,240
one of the nicest locales and in the

2358
01:35:13,970 --> 01:35:11,760
Albuquerque area and and happened to

2359
01:35:16,820 --> 01:35:13,980
live at a place that was a stone's throw

2360
01:35:19,250 --> 01:35:16,830
so to speak from the fence line of

2361
01:35:20,690 --> 01:35:19,260
Kirtland Air Force Base and perhaps that

2362
01:35:23,030 --> 01:35:20,700
the closest point maybe a quarter of a

2363
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:23,040
mile from the northernmost foothills of

2364
01:35:27,530 --> 01:35:25,050
the Manzano at the storage area but

2365
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:27,540
needless to say he was a guy like many

2366
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:29,610
of us who I believe had already had some

2367
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:31,890
interest in UFO phenomena my

2368
01:35:35,930 --> 01:35:33,210
understanding it may have been may have

2369
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:35,940
gone back quite a while but in the later

2370
01:35:41,420 --> 01:35:39,690
late 1970s particularly in 1979 when

2371
01:35:43,190 --> 01:35:41,430
there were a lot of reports of cattle

2372
01:35:46,220 --> 01:35:43,200
mutilations and such going on in the

2373
01:35:48,890 --> 01:35:46,230
northern New Mexico Colorado area he

2374
01:35:50,900 --> 01:35:48,900
apparently also gotten interested in

2375
01:35:52,970 --> 01:35:50,910
that and subsequent to some other things

2376
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:52,980
that went on came to know Gabe Valdez

2377
01:35:57,290 --> 01:35:54,930
who many of your listeners probably know

2378
01:35:59,150 --> 01:35:57,300
was a state trooper over the Hickory

2379
01:36:01,730 --> 01:35:59,160
Apache Indian Reservation area and

2380
01:36:03,260 --> 01:36:01,740
actually right there kind of cord dulce

2381
01:36:05,330 --> 01:36:03,270
the term dulce comes from because it's

2382
01:36:07,250 --> 01:36:05,340
the small town basically kind of in the

2383
01:36:08,450 --> 01:36:07,260
foothills there but so at some point

2384
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:08,460
Paul

2385
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:11,280
didn't I believe July of 1979 that he'd

2386
01:36:15,650 --> 01:36:13,770
go visit Gabe and Gabe and take him on a

2387
01:36:18,440 --> 01:36:15,660
ride you know on his night patrols I

2388
01:36:19,610 --> 01:36:18,450
suppose I suppose the next day and of

2389
01:36:21,380 --> 01:36:19,620
course they certainly saw some very

2390
01:36:23,750 --> 01:36:21,390
unusual things on that ride and what

2391
01:36:26,510 --> 01:36:23,760
that was I don't know but what basically

2392
01:36:29,090 --> 01:36:26,520
began interest primarily I think in that

2393
01:36:31,010 --> 01:36:29,100
area is a small Polaroid that Paul took

2394
01:36:32,750 --> 01:36:31,020
that he later on back in Albuquerque

2395
01:36:35,420 --> 01:36:32,760
showed to his wife and she pointed out

2396
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:35,430
something you know and I reproduced

2397
01:36:40,010 --> 01:36:37,410
small version of that in my book and

2398
01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:40,020
that God is interested must be something

2399
01:36:43,490 --> 01:36:41,760
going on up there and over the next six

2400
01:36:45,530 --> 01:36:43,500
months at least twice I believe once

2401
01:36:47,510 --> 01:36:45,540
with one of his sons he went back and

2402
01:36:49,190 --> 01:36:47,520
spent some time up there the only reason

2403
01:36:51,229 --> 01:36:49,200
I'm focusing on that even though to this

2404
01:36:52,670 --> 01:36:51,239
day I do think he describes some very

2405
01:36:54,650 --> 01:36:52,680
unusual things he was seeing

2406
01:36:56,810 --> 01:36:54,660
but the point his interest was in that

2407
01:36:59,300 --> 01:36:56,820
area was not an Albuquerque area at that

2408
01:37:01,729 --> 01:36:59,310
at that time when he came back from I

2409
01:37:03,470 --> 01:37:01,739
believe his last trip that his wife had

2410
01:37:05,330 --> 01:37:03,480
heard something unusual and that kind of

2411
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:05,340
got him to wonder even though of course

2412
01:37:09,110 --> 01:37:06,960
we're talking about a very esoteric

2413
01:37:11,180 --> 01:37:09,120
subject to begin with so where your

2414
01:37:12,890 --> 01:37:11,190
logic and reality stretches to you know

2415
01:37:15,260 --> 01:37:12,900
your conclusion so he decided maybe he

2416
01:37:17,780 --> 01:37:15,270
should keep an eye out of the area right

2417
01:37:19,250 --> 01:37:17,790
around his home and that's what my

2418
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:19,260
understanding and this is based on

2419
01:37:22,990 --> 01:37:21,600
material he sent me written some of it

2420
01:37:25,550 --> 01:37:23,000
handwritten a lot of it typed out

2421
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:25,560
illegal size pages explaining everything

2422
01:37:30,350 --> 01:37:27,810
that occurred that's what got him on his

2423
01:37:31,729 --> 01:37:30,360
roof and the best I could determine was

2424
01:37:35,780 --> 01:37:31,739
right around the middle of December of

2425
01:37:38,420 --> 01:37:35,790
1979 and at that point as described in

2426
01:37:40,640 --> 01:37:38,430
the book he saw some unusual things

2427
01:37:43,130 --> 01:37:40,650
going on at the base of the Manzano

2428
01:37:44,780 --> 01:37:43,140
weapons storage area and apparently as

2429
01:37:46,430 --> 01:37:44,790
he described got his wife up there at

2430
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:46,440
one point to to watch these things and

2431
01:37:50,570 --> 01:37:49,290
over a period of I presume several days

2432
01:37:52,459 --> 01:37:50,580
no matter if they were consecutive

2433
01:37:53,900 --> 01:37:52,469
nights or you know but but I would say

2434
01:37:56,420 --> 01:37:53,910
with him let's say maybe a week or so

2435
01:37:58,880 --> 01:37:56,430
several days he got films I believe he

2436
01:37:59,420 --> 01:37:58,890
had a camera with a and with a telescope

2437
01:38:01,370 --> 01:37:59,430
on it

2438
01:38:03,110 --> 01:38:01,380
you had a Hasselblad still camera that

2439
01:38:04,550 --> 01:38:03,120
he'd used he had a eight millimeter

2440
01:38:07,070 --> 01:38:04,560
movie camera where they I believe it was

2441
01:38:09,890 --> 01:38:07,080
a six degree lens on it and he had this

2442
01:38:11,990 --> 01:38:09,900
all set up on his roof so my take on it

2443
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:12,000
was he got the goods and he did it in

2444
01:38:16,459 --> 01:38:13,650
the way I think I would have done it and

2445
01:38:18,470 --> 01:38:16,469
at that point not not knowing what he

2446
01:38:20,570 --> 01:38:18,480
saw that from what he had described to

2447
01:38:22,100 --> 01:38:20,580
me at some point he decided you know he

2448
01:38:24,050 --> 01:38:22,110
doesn't see the alarms going on

2449
01:38:25,700 --> 01:38:24,060
I mean there's no you know the security

2450
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:25,710
guards come racing around the bend and

2451
01:38:30,110 --> 01:38:29,010
he got concerned as if I believe he

2452
01:38:31,820 --> 01:38:30,120
really thought he was doing the right

2453
01:38:35,090 --> 01:38:31,830
thing he was being a concerned citizen

2454
01:38:38,060 --> 01:38:35,100
that just maybe the people at the Air

2455
01:38:40,130 --> 01:38:38,070
Force award Montano security don't even

2456
01:38:41,810 --> 01:38:40,140
know what's going on and he picked up

2457
01:38:43,940 --> 01:38:41,820
the phone and called the base and got in

2458
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:43,950
touch with Ernest Edwards and told him

2459
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:45,210
he wanted to talk to him about these

2460
01:38:49,310 --> 01:38:47,520
land the landings on the mountain and

2461
01:38:51,170 --> 01:38:49,320
that that if nothing else tells you

2462
01:38:53,120 --> 01:38:51,180
these things were in the vicinity of the

2463
01:38:55,430 --> 01:38:53,130
mountain for him to call Ernest Edwards

2464
01:38:57,920 --> 01:38:55,440
who was responsible for the protecting

2465
01:39:00,260 --> 01:38:57,930
the security inside the fence line yeah

2466
01:39:01,940 --> 01:39:00,270
in Kris I think he should also you know

2467
01:39:04,130 --> 01:39:01,950
provide a little bit more of a detailed

2468
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:04,140
description of Manzano this is one of

2469
01:39:10,190 --> 01:39:06,770
the most secure nuclear weapons storage

2470
01:39:12,050 --> 01:39:10,200
facilities on the planet I mean we're

2471
01:39:14,420 --> 01:39:12,060
not talking just you know artillery

2472
01:39:16,610 --> 01:39:14,430
shells and you know rounds of ammunition

2473
01:39:18,650 --> 01:39:16,620
for small caliber weapons we're talking

2474
01:39:20,060 --> 01:39:18,660
nuclear weapons storage facility that's

2475
01:39:20,420 --> 01:39:20,070
really important for people doing right

2476
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:20,430
then

2477
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:22,530
yes yes and and I think it's an in fact

2478
01:39:27,490 --> 01:39:24,570
I had clipped articles that were put out

2479
01:39:29,870 --> 01:39:27,500
by even though the penal system that the

2480
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:29,880
jail system in New Mexico were talking

2481
01:39:33,950 --> 01:39:31,410
about how some of their you know they

2482
01:39:36,890 --> 01:39:33,960
looked at the Manzano's as a as a model

2483
01:39:38,990 --> 01:39:36,900
for how secure you can actually be this

2484
01:39:41,390 --> 01:39:39,000
site had at least I think a double

2485
01:39:43,070 --> 01:39:41,400
perimeter electrified sent and the same

2486
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:43,080
article described sometimes you'd find

2487
01:39:46,190 --> 01:39:44,610
people who had come wandering across the

2488
01:39:47,900 --> 01:39:46,200
you know got caught on the fence that

2489
01:39:51,140 --> 01:39:47,910
sort of thing but it was extremely

2490
01:39:52,490 --> 01:39:51,150
secure and to just so everyone knows

2491
01:39:54,860 --> 01:39:52,500
that I have put pictures in this book

2492
01:39:56,990 --> 01:39:54,870
back at the time that we were there

2493
01:39:59,120 --> 01:39:57,000
which was clearly in the 80s there were

2494
01:40:01,280 --> 01:39:59,130
signs on the fence had no photographs

2495
01:40:02,780 --> 01:40:01,290
allowed no photography allowed at one

2496
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:02,790
time when I was there an old woman came

2497
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:04,650
driving slowly down the road and rolled

2498
01:40:06,740 --> 01:40:05,850
her window down and looked at me said

2499
01:40:09,170 --> 01:40:06,750
you're not supposed to be taking

2500
01:40:11,150 --> 01:40:09,180
pictures okay those pictures those signs

2501
01:40:13,220 --> 01:40:11,160
aren't there now if you've been in the

2502
01:40:15,020 --> 01:40:13,230
area and I took time a year ago and

2503
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:15,030
drove out there all the way spent two

2504
01:40:18,740 --> 01:40:16,650
days and took pictures and films and

2505
01:40:20,300 --> 01:40:18,750
anyway the point is there are no longer

2506
01:40:22,130 --> 01:40:20,310
any signs on the fence that say no

2507
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:22,140
photographs allowed and I think it's

2508
01:40:25,700 --> 01:40:23,970
simply because the housing areas are

2509
01:40:27,950 --> 01:40:25,710
encroaching right to the fence line

2510
01:40:29,630 --> 01:40:27,960
almost on all the west side you've got

2511
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:29,640
houses now that you can walk right up to

2512
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:31,290
the fence so I think it's a moot point

2513
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:32,850
whether there's going to be anything

2514
01:40:35,660 --> 01:40:34,650
that's not going to be visible from this

2515
01:40:37,939 --> 01:40:35,670
site for

2516
01:40:40,070 --> 01:40:37,949
from the west side of the slopes but in

2517
01:40:41,900 --> 01:40:40,080
Paul bennewitz his day not much of that

2518
01:40:44,419 --> 01:40:41,910
was there I mean there was a pretty wide

2519
01:40:47,180 --> 01:40:44,429
stretch heading down towards the

2520
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:47,190
Albuquerque City area and from the

2521
01:40:51,260 --> 01:40:49,410
album's in the valley you really can't

2522
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:51,270
see the foothills of the Manzano is very

2523
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:53,250
clearly and at any distance if lights

2524
01:40:55,939 --> 01:40:54,570
went along anybody could have shrugged

2525
01:40:59,000 --> 01:40:55,949
their shoulders and said maybe it's

2526
01:40:59,959 --> 01:40:59,010
helicopters so I have a feeling that

2527
01:41:02,330 --> 01:40:59,969
back in the day

2528
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:02,340
Paul's perched on his rooftop which is

2529
01:41:07,790 --> 01:41:05,610
above the second floor gave him a front

2530
01:41:09,410 --> 01:41:07,800
row seat with his equipment to be able

2531
01:41:11,330 --> 01:41:09,420
to see right into this area that

2532
01:41:13,580 --> 01:41:11,340
anything that was actually sitting down

2533
01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:13,590
low on the ground at that point probably

2534
01:41:18,650 --> 01:41:16,050
was not even visible so he was putting

2535
01:41:20,330 --> 01:41:18,660
himself in long and short of it in a

2536
01:41:22,790 --> 01:41:20,340
situation where he may be seeing things

2537
01:41:24,919 --> 01:41:22,800
he should not have been able to see oh I

2538
01:41:26,689 --> 01:41:24,929
think that's absolutely the case I think

2539
01:41:29,060 --> 01:41:26,699
I think in the long run the evidence

2540
01:41:30,650 --> 01:41:29,070
shows whoever owned or built or whatever

2541
01:41:33,530 --> 01:41:30,660
you want to say whoever was flying what

2542
01:41:35,570 --> 01:41:33,540
he filmed that my conviction now is oh

2543
01:41:38,209 --> 01:41:35,580
they were known to be there they were

2544
01:41:39,770 --> 01:41:38,219
allowed and were was there for reasons

2545
01:41:41,570 --> 01:41:39,780
of their own it was called who wasn't

2546
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:41,580
supposed to be there and he just

2547
01:41:46,010 --> 01:41:44,010
stumbled into it innocently or otherwise

2548
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:46,020
for his own you know because he was

2549
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:47,370
interested in the subject his wife

2550
01:41:52,700 --> 01:41:50,489
mentioned something to him and the drop

2551
01:41:54,530 --> 01:41:52,710
of adavi dominoes he ends up on his roof

2552
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:54,540
at a time and I've mentioned this to

2553
01:41:58,400 --> 01:41:56,610
other people as well based on looking at

2554
01:42:00,290 --> 01:41:58,410
this I have to conclude there's no

2555
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:00,300
reason to believe that he simply got

2556
01:42:04,430 --> 01:42:02,489
there on the first night for all we know

2557
01:42:06,140 --> 01:42:04,440
things may have been coming and going

2558
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:06,150
from this area for a time and Paul when

2559
01:42:09,950 --> 01:42:08,250
he finally got up there and saw him he

2560
01:42:12,169 --> 01:42:09,960
stumbled into the middle of something

2561
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:12,179
what was going on you know I've had

2562
01:42:15,590 --> 01:42:13,530
people point out that you know some of

2563
01:42:18,590 --> 01:42:15,600
the distances between the objects that

2564
01:42:20,300 --> 01:42:18,600
Paul cited seemed to match roughly

2565
01:42:22,610 --> 01:42:20,310
speaking some of the distances between

2566
01:42:24,169 --> 01:42:22,620
the bunkers that were there that's all

2567
01:42:26,479 --> 01:42:24,179
speculation of course I understand that

2568
01:42:28,610 --> 01:42:26,489
but there's always there a possible

2569
01:42:30,290 --> 01:42:28,620
natural explanation for all this or do

2570
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:30,300
we have to think that more than that was

2571
01:42:34,100 --> 01:42:32,370
going oh no no just all you have to do

2572
01:42:37,100 --> 01:42:34,110
is look at those gorgeous color

2573
01:42:38,390 --> 01:42:37,110
photographs in Chris's book no way you

2574
01:42:40,430 --> 01:42:38,400
know I want to make it all to this point

2575
01:42:42,410 --> 01:42:40,440
when when I first saw or heard about

2576
01:42:45,350 --> 01:42:42,420
these film I would simply told all there

2577
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:45,360
just was light and I suppose from Paul's

2578
01:42:48,229 --> 01:42:46,890
description that of course he's standing

2579
01:42:49,010 --> 01:42:48,239
on his roof excited with his camera

2580
01:42:50,930 --> 01:42:49,020
running that

2581
01:42:52,610 --> 01:42:50,940
a lot of this was jostling around but he

2582
01:42:54,950 --> 01:42:52,620
sent me images that were actually

2583
01:42:57,350 --> 01:42:54,960
stopped on a reel-to-reel a small little

2584
01:42:58,760 --> 01:42:57,360
film editor off of that screen where he

2585
01:43:00,200 --> 01:42:58,770
could as I described in the book I

2586
01:43:01,940 --> 01:43:00,210
believe he could adjust that prison a

2587
01:43:04,430 --> 01:43:01,950
little to actually accentuate them and

2588
01:43:06,440 --> 01:43:04,440
he told me the true film is much more

2589
01:43:08,300 --> 01:43:06,450
vivid than just the pictures that he

2590
01:43:10,370 --> 01:43:08,310
sent but it wasn't until I actually

2591
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:10,380
began to take them into Photoshop and

2592
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:11,850
use some other software that allows you

2593
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:13,890
to actually really get down into the

2594
01:43:17,750 --> 01:43:15,690
brightest area that what you see in

2595
01:43:19,820 --> 01:43:17,760
those pictures was new to me and I

2596
01:43:21,620 --> 01:43:19,830
guarantee you somebody will look at

2597
01:43:23,060 --> 01:43:21,630
those and recognize something about

2598
01:43:24,740 --> 01:43:23,070
what's going on in don't know I mean I

2599
01:43:26,780 --> 01:43:24,750
don't have that kind of expertise well

2600
01:43:29,390 --> 01:43:26,790
we know we know ray has that observation

2601
01:43:31,700 --> 01:43:29,400
look you know because I like to make

2602
01:43:33,770 --> 01:43:31,710
comments a I mean Chris I hope the

2603
01:43:35,390 --> 01:43:33,780
listeners will realize that except for

2604
01:43:36,770 --> 01:43:35,400
maybe one of these pictures in Chris but

2605
01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:36,780
they have been published before and they

2606
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:39,330
are remarkable not only that but one

2607
01:43:44,990 --> 01:43:41,730
sees these objects on the Manzano that

2608
01:43:47,780 --> 01:43:45,000
for example have a line faintly around a

2609
01:43:50,900 --> 01:43:47,790
dislike shape it seemed of blue lights

2610
01:43:53,150 --> 01:43:50,910
now I've become very familiar from my

2611
01:43:55,250 --> 01:43:53,160
own observations and feelings of high

2612
01:43:57,800 --> 01:43:55,260
energy emitters sequencing around the

2613
01:44:00,410 --> 01:43:57,810
edge of these objects it looks very much

2614
01:44:02,870 --> 01:44:00,420
the same to me someone might say well

2615
01:44:05,060 --> 01:44:02,880
you talk about them sequencing it looks

2616
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:05,070
like their own the whole time we are

2617
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:08,010
defining what Paul bennewitz had

2618
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:10,530
observed and photographed we have Chris

2619
01:44:15,410 --> 01:44:12,930
Lambright the book is called X

2620
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:15,420
descending we have Ray Stanford with us

2621
01:44:19,860 --> 01:44:17,520
with Jean Steinberg Chris O'Brien you're

2622
01:44:27,100 --> 01:44:19,870
in America

2623
01:44:33,890 --> 01:44:30,680
the gcn radio network providing the

2624
01:44:38,810 --> 01:44:33,900
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

2625
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:38,820
and great talk radio starts here hi Ted

2626
01:44:42,500 --> 01:44:40,290
Anderson announcing a great way to

2627
01:44:44,690 --> 01:44:42,510
listen to radio on the telephone by

2628
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:44,700
calling seven six oh five six nine

2629
01:44:49,340 --> 01:44:46,770
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

2630
01:44:51,770 --> 01:44:49,350
G C and live.com programs in seconds

2631
01:44:54,170 --> 01:44:51,780
come to GC and live.com find your

2632
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:54,180
favorite host dedicated phone number and

2633
01:44:59,600 --> 01:44:57,090
hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

2634
01:45:02,180 --> 01:44:59,610
show has a dedicated phone number stop

2635
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:02,190
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

2636
01:45:06,910 --> 01:45:04,530
number today and again that's seven six

2637
01:45:09,530 --> 01:45:06,920
oh five six nine seventy seven hundred

2638
01:45:11,630 --> 01:45:09,540
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

2639
01:45:13,250 --> 01:45:11,640
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2640
01:45:15,020 --> 01:45:13,260
protect from counterfeit and carding to

2641
01:45:15,530 --> 01:45:15,030
a private bank having it led back at

2642
01:45:17,210 --> 01:45:15,540
interest

2643
01:45:19,100 --> 01:45:17,220
forcing taxes to service debt this

2644
01:45:20,540 --> 01:45:19,110
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

2645
01:45:22,190 --> 01:45:20,550
stating a central bank issuing the

2646
01:45:23,300 --> 01:45:22,200
public currency is a greater menace to

2647
01:45:25,070 --> 01:45:23,310
the liberties of the people than a

2648
01:45:26,150 --> 01:45:25,080
standing army Ted Anderson I'm placing a

2649
01:45:28,250 --> 01:45:26,160
free silver dollar in a book that

2650
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:28,260
explains our monetary system call for

2651
01:45:34,610 --> 01:45:31,530
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

2652
01:45:37,970 --> 01:45:34,620
understand the system call 866 to 237

2653
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:37,980
that's 800 686 to 237

2654
01:45:52,050 --> 01:45:47,740
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2655
01:45:57,400 --> 01:45:52,060
standard of paranormal radio and now

2656
01:46:01,240 --> 01:45:57,410
here's Jane Steinberg the strange

2657
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:01,250
Odyssey or the disinformation campaign

2658
01:46:06,430 --> 01:46:04,010
against Paul bennewitz because she saw

2659
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:06,440
the wrong thing at the wrong time years

2660
01:46:11,979 --> 01:46:09,410
ago we have Chris Lambright author of

2661
01:46:14,590 --> 01:46:11,989
exes ending race Stanford Jean Steinberg

2662
01:46:17,170 --> 01:46:14,600
and Chris O'Brien I'm the power cast can

2663
01:46:18,820 --> 01:46:17,180
I finish that statement yeah sure okay

2664
01:46:21,310 --> 01:46:18,830
there's a series of blue lights

2665
01:46:22,990 --> 01:46:21,320
apparently around around object but that

2666
01:46:24,490 --> 01:46:23,000
doesn't mean they're I believe that he

2667
01:46:26,410 --> 01:46:24,500
was shooting at night so he uses a

2668
01:46:28,270 --> 01:46:26,420
fairly slow shutter speed in order to

2669
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:28,280
record the image I believe that these

2670
01:46:31,870 --> 01:46:30,530
are probably high speed sequencing and I

2671
01:46:34,270 --> 01:46:31,880
see nothing in these photographs that

2672
01:46:36,340 --> 01:46:34,280
would distinguish them from the kinds of

2673
01:46:37,689 --> 01:46:36,350
objects are approximately the same kind

2674
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:37,699
of phenomena and objects that we have

2675
01:46:42,580 --> 01:46:40,010
been filming and I don't think anything

2676
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:42,590
today in known aircraft can even come

2677
01:46:46,630 --> 01:46:44,930
close to what Paul recorded on there and

2678
01:46:49,030 --> 01:46:46,640
I encourage everybody to take their own

2679
01:46:51,010 --> 01:46:49,040
look to see pictures that I believe are

2680
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:51,020
absolutely genuine and should be

2681
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:52,610
distinguished from the trash we're

2682
01:46:56,830 --> 01:46:54,530
seeing so much of on the Internet today

2683
01:46:59,229 --> 01:46:56,840
last question before we go on with Paul

2684
01:47:02,560 --> 01:46:59,239
bennewitz that is are we seeing anything

2685
01:47:05,170 --> 01:47:02,570
like this today it seems to be episodes

2686
01:47:07,630 --> 01:47:05,180
that go back 20 30 years or so yes we

2687
01:47:08,709 --> 01:47:07,640
are well we are issue ray a challenge

2688
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:08,719
crystal Brian probably knows something

2689
01:47:12,189 --> 01:47:10,130
since he brought up the fact of the

2690
01:47:14,229 --> 01:47:12,199
emitters when I look at that image of

2691
01:47:16,540 --> 01:47:14,239
Paul dinner that Paul bennewitz took it

2692
01:47:19,030 --> 01:47:16,550
reminds me of a film of a shot ray knows

2693
01:47:21,430 --> 01:47:19,040
as the father Kubler images in which

2694
01:47:22,840 --> 01:47:21,440
they're distinct emitters on this right

2695
01:47:24,100 --> 01:47:22,850
if Chris O'Brien knows something about

2696
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:24,110
it but I'm just saying that's an image

2697
01:47:28,750 --> 01:47:25,850
that people might be very interested in

2698
01:47:30,220 --> 01:47:28,760
thing as well but as far as as far as

2699
01:47:32,590 --> 01:47:30,230
seeing something to this day very

2700
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:32,600
possible I have I have not seen anything

2701
01:47:36,189 --> 01:47:34,250
that I would look at of course not

2702
01:47:37,510 --> 01:47:36,199
images array has either but especially

2703
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:37,520
not any of the ones that Paul been with

2704
01:47:41,620 --> 01:47:39,920
mistaken and say well there I can

2705
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:41,630
certainly follow some kind of logical

2706
01:47:45,790 --> 01:47:44,090
path back to see this image compares to

2707
01:47:47,500 --> 01:47:45,800
that one but I wouldn't at all be at all

2708
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:47,510
surprised if there are you know there

2709
01:47:51,340 --> 01:47:49,130
are things being seen by people here and

2710
01:47:53,169 --> 01:47:51,350
there that well there are some Chris but

2711
01:47:56,150 --> 01:47:53,179
there are few and far between in this

2712
01:47:58,310 --> 01:47:56,160
age of Photoshop After Effects and

2713
01:48:00,200 --> 01:47:58,320
no animation programs at least now of

2714
01:48:02,750 --> 01:48:00,210
course if they don't see it they'll make

2715
01:48:04,010 --> 01:48:02,760
you see it unfortunately that that's one

2716
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:04,020
of hurry I think isn't that a valid

2717
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:06,090
point Andy and I had discussed this that

2718
01:48:10,190 --> 01:48:08,010
you know how much you want to put it out

2719
01:48:12,170 --> 01:48:10,200
there you want people to see and I want

2720
01:48:14,450 --> 01:48:12,180
everyone to see this I told everybody

2721
01:48:15,890 --> 01:48:14,460
you have to go see and you will convince

2722
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:15,900
yourself you're not gonna believe it

2723
01:48:18,470 --> 01:48:17,370
because I said it I certainly wouldn't

2724
01:48:20,540 --> 01:48:18,480
have believed just because some have

2725
01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:20,550
said but the problem is the minute you

2726
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:23,370
put it out there people fake things some

2727
01:48:27,230 --> 01:48:24,930
for their own reasons some just for a

2728
01:48:28,670 --> 01:48:27,240
joke and if you tell too much of what

2729
01:48:30,260 --> 01:48:28,680
you know I've encouraged ray you know

2730
01:48:31,940 --> 01:48:30,270
show as much as you can and withhold

2731
01:48:33,950 --> 01:48:31,950
these certain points because there are

2732
01:48:35,900 --> 01:48:33,960
ways to potentially distinguish but it's

2733
01:48:38,030 --> 01:48:35,910
unfortunately I have to be honest at

2734
01:48:39,860 --> 01:48:38,040
Paul I mentioned him one time on the

2735
01:48:41,210 --> 01:48:39,870
phone I said Paul when you call the Air

2736
01:48:43,630 --> 01:48:41,220
Force didn't you kind of think you were

2737
01:48:46,370 --> 01:48:43,640
letting the cat out of the bag and he

2738
01:48:50,630 --> 01:48:46,380
any aside and said you know you can't be

2739
01:48:52,070 --> 01:48:50,640
too paranoid and I was pathetic yeah

2740
01:48:54,410 --> 01:48:52,080
well he could have been a little more so

2741
01:48:56,660 --> 01:48:54,420
but my point of that is you know at some

2742
01:48:58,550 --> 01:48:56,670
point you have to put it out but experts

2743
01:49:01,340 --> 01:48:58,560
will recognize and they will see some

2744
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:01,350
people will ridicule but in time you

2745
01:49:04,310 --> 01:49:02,730
know you put some things out there and

2746
01:49:05,510 --> 01:49:04,320
the people who know like Mirabeau like

2747
01:49:07,850 --> 01:49:05,520
some of the others who've seen what Ray

2748
01:49:09,830 --> 01:49:07,860
has they'll recognize what it is so I'm

2749
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:09,840
hoping it will get out there but but at

2750
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:11,610
this point I have not seen any of this

2751
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:13,530
you know flying around I don't know

2752
01:49:17,090 --> 01:49:15,090
whose congressional budget may be paying

2753
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:17,100
for that research but is there a

2754
01:49:19,160 --> 01:49:18,690
possibility here let me ask this

2755
01:49:21,470 --> 01:49:19,170
question

2756
01:49:24,110 --> 01:49:21,480
any possibility that any of the stuff

2757
01:49:26,360 --> 01:49:24,120
that Paul bennewitz saw represented a

2758
01:49:28,970 --> 01:49:26,370
secret government project doesn't matter

2759
01:49:31,100 --> 01:49:28,980
whether it came from alien technology or

2760
01:49:32,630 --> 01:49:31,110
whatever he saw something the government

2761
01:49:34,970 --> 01:49:32,640
was working on that's something that

2762
01:49:37,730 --> 01:49:34,980
happened because of some alien influence

2763
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:37,740
well sighs this point

2764
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:39,570
nowhere in the book that I've written do

2765
01:49:45,050 --> 01:49:41,970
I make this statement that any of this

2766
01:49:46,400 --> 01:49:45,060
is quote unquote alien technology I do

2767
01:49:47,990 --> 01:49:46,410
make the point that I think Occam's

2768
01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:48,000
razor is not going to cut so smoothly

2769
01:49:51,740 --> 01:49:49,770
and so especially in the case of what

2770
01:49:53,930 --> 01:49:51,750
Ray's got on film yeah we're a great

2771
01:49:56,750 --> 01:49:53,940
Brian I don't know my point of all of

2772
01:49:58,820 --> 01:49:56,760
this is wherever it comes from it

2773
01:50:00,890 --> 01:49:58,830
represents a technology we all deserve

2774
01:50:02,750 --> 01:50:00,900
the right to benefit from I mean I hate

2775
01:50:05,330 --> 01:50:02,760
to say this but science if I'm not

2776
01:50:07,250 --> 01:50:05,340
mistaken is about truth it's not about

2777
01:50:09,980 --> 01:50:07,260
sitting on it and sadly to say in a

2778
01:50:11,810 --> 01:50:09,990
capitalist society when money is tight

2779
01:50:14,510 --> 01:50:11,820
these days everybody needs to survive

2780
01:50:16,460 --> 01:50:14,520
somehow but I can't just say that after

2781
01:50:18,410 --> 01:50:16,470
all of this time that would I feel right

2782
01:50:20,660 --> 01:50:18,420
if what was done to Paul bennewitz

2783
01:50:22,070 --> 01:50:20,670
was done to my family my parents how

2784
01:50:24,440 --> 01:50:22,080
about you you know with any of the

2785
01:50:26,750 --> 01:50:24,450
senators say oh yeah it's okay to stick

2786
01:50:28,370 --> 01:50:26,760
it to let's talk about that why don't

2787
01:50:31,460 --> 01:50:28,380
you give us a quick thumbnail sketch of

2788
01:50:33,410 --> 01:50:31,470
the unfortunate circumstances around the

2789
01:50:35,540 --> 01:50:33,420
demise of Paul bennewitz I mean this

2790
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:35,550
gets into a whole other ball of wax

2791
01:50:39,440 --> 01:50:37,530
which is you know habit we've covered

2792
01:50:41,420 --> 01:50:39,450
this with Greg Bishop he wrote to the

2793
01:50:43,220 --> 01:50:41,430
you know of course wrote the very good

2794
01:50:45,590 --> 01:50:43,230
book project beta about the venomous

2795
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:45,600
case and you've come up with some

2796
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:47,970
additional information about the actual

2797
01:50:51,170 --> 01:50:50,370
disinformation program that erupted

2798
01:50:53,060 --> 01:50:51,180
around bennewitz

2799
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:53,070
once he went to the Air Force and said

2800
01:50:57,290 --> 01:50:54,930
hey you guys do you know the Divis is

2801
01:50:59,630 --> 01:50:57,300
going out in your backyard around one of

2802
01:51:01,880 --> 01:50:59,640
our most secure nuclear weapons storage

2803
01:51:03,050 --> 01:51:01,890
areas why don't you kind of move it

2804
01:51:05,150 --> 01:51:03,060
forward a little bit where we're running

2805
01:51:07,190 --> 01:51:05,160
out of time so I want our you know

2806
01:51:09,020 --> 01:51:07,200
analysis to understand what happened to

2807
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:09,030
Penix and I do want to come in Greg

2808
01:51:13,850 --> 01:51:11,730
Bishop I mean he contacted me back 10

2809
01:51:15,170 --> 01:51:13,860
years ago how long ago it was about he'd

2810
01:51:16,610 --> 01:51:15,180
heard I had some of these images and of

2811
01:51:19,160 --> 01:51:16,620
course I had just begun working on this

2812
01:51:20,570 --> 01:51:19,170
at the time though of course he was said

2813
01:51:22,310 --> 01:51:20,580
he's a good friend of bill Moore's and

2814
01:51:24,590 --> 01:51:22,320
and I'll be honest that put me on edge

2815
01:51:26,060 --> 01:51:24,600
that made me defensive and I decided to

2816
01:51:27,710 --> 01:51:26,070
wait and you know just to not kind of

2817
01:51:29,030 --> 01:51:27,720
not go forward with that I'll have to

2818
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:29,040
explain also to our listeners who

2819
01:51:33,260 --> 01:51:30,810
haven't followed the history of Bill

2820
01:51:35,380 --> 01:51:33,270
Moore the fact that although he was one

2821
01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:35,390
of the pioneer researchers into Roswell

2822
01:51:41,420 --> 01:51:39,330
he did things that aren't very nice well

2823
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:41,430
yeah and I do want to qualify as well

2824
01:51:44,390 --> 01:51:42,690
that everything that I've written is

2825
01:51:46,730 --> 01:51:44,400
based on my experience and so you could

2826
01:51:48,530 --> 01:51:46,740
say it's in my opinion and a lot of this

2827
01:51:49,700 --> 01:51:48,540
is like presenting a case in court you

2828
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:49,710
know you're trying to present the best

2829
01:51:53,090 --> 01:51:51,930
way you can but I want people to make up

2830
01:51:54,620 --> 01:51:53,100
their own minds and make up their own

2831
01:51:56,810 --> 01:51:54,630
decisions about what you know where they

2832
01:51:58,910 --> 01:51:56,820
decide to what they decide to believe or

2833
01:52:01,490 --> 01:51:58,920
be convinced off I at the time that bill

2834
01:52:03,170 --> 01:52:01,500
Moore gave his confession so to speak I

2835
01:52:04,820 --> 01:52:03,180
was one to say you know just wait wait

2836
01:52:06,830 --> 01:52:04,830
wait if any of us had been in that

2837
01:52:08,990 --> 01:52:06,840
position and maybe that's the point of a

2838
01:52:11,810 --> 01:52:09,000
convincing confession okay but you know

2839
01:52:14,450 --> 01:52:11,820
that's step two we need to know step one

2840
01:52:17,540 --> 01:52:14,460
okay so bill Moore confess what did he

2841
01:52:19,700 --> 01:52:17,550
do well he claimed that he had been if I

2842
01:52:21,959 --> 01:52:19,710
believed his words were recruited by

2843
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:21,969
Richard Doty also if you listened to

2844
01:52:25,319 --> 01:52:23,650
said it there was another person he's

2845
01:52:27,390 --> 01:52:25,329
called Falcon who supposedly was the

2846
01:52:30,299 --> 01:52:27,400
precursor to some of this he claimed to

2847
01:52:31,500 --> 01:52:30,309
have been recruited to inform I guess

2848
01:52:33,180 --> 01:52:31,510
that's where I would put it on Paul

2849
01:52:34,830 --> 01:52:33,190
bennewitz we need to go whatever Paul

2850
01:52:37,709 --> 01:52:34,840
bennewitz was doing and thinking and

2851
01:52:39,689 --> 01:52:37,719
Bill Moore would befriend him and Bill

2852
01:52:41,939 --> 01:52:39,699
Moore then subsequently would pass that

2853
01:52:44,040 --> 01:52:41,949
information on to Richard Doty and I

2854
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:44,050
believe he mentioned that he kind of got

2855
01:52:47,549 --> 01:52:45,489
the impression Bodie was taking notes

2856
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:47,559
and some of that information was

2857
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:49,090
potentially being fed back to Paul

2858
01:52:53,790 --> 01:52:51,130
bennewitz from third-party errs from

2859
01:52:55,560 --> 01:52:53,800
other sources which seemed to reaffirm

2860
01:52:56,580 --> 01:52:55,570
it in Paul's mind that he was onto

2861
01:52:58,950 --> 01:52:56,590
something because he's hearing

2862
01:53:00,959 --> 01:52:58,960
supportive evidence or hearing some

2863
01:53:02,850 --> 01:53:00,969
terms of information from other places

2864
01:53:04,830 --> 01:53:02,860
that seem to keep it below Chris work

2865
01:53:08,069 --> 01:53:04,840
for our new time listeners Richard Doty

2866
01:53:10,259 --> 01:53:08,079
claimed to be later on claimed to be

2867
01:53:12,509 --> 01:53:10,269
working for Air Force intelligence he

2868
01:53:14,719 --> 01:53:12,519
was involved in a disinformation program

2869
01:53:17,700 --> 01:53:14,729
and some sort of Counter Intelligence

2870
01:53:20,189 --> 01:53:17,710
operation concerning Ben winces claims

2871
01:53:22,290 --> 01:53:20,199
of filming and recording audio

2872
01:53:24,930 --> 01:53:22,300
recordings of these unusual events

2873
01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:24,940
around Manzano so the Air Force then

2874
01:53:31,890 --> 01:53:28,690
they put a team of people on Ben wits

2875
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:31,900
and they started messing with him they

2876
01:53:36,899 --> 01:53:34,090
literally did I mean the guy went

2877
01:53:39,180 --> 01:53:36,909
through an amazing period of I mean they

2878
01:53:41,370 --> 01:53:39,190
some of these operatives according to

2879
01:53:42,930 --> 01:53:41,380
Greg Bishop and others would actually go

2880
01:53:45,149 --> 01:53:42,940
into his house when he wasn't there and

2881
01:53:47,069 --> 01:53:45,159
rearranged the furniture just to you

2882
01:53:48,989 --> 01:53:47,079
know mess with his moment yeah I think

2883
01:53:50,729 --> 01:53:48,999
anybody who really thinks seriously

2884
01:53:53,879 --> 01:53:50,739
about this would realize that wait a

2885
01:53:56,969 --> 01:53:53,889
minute how important of what was it that

2886
01:53:59,580 --> 01:53:56,979
Paul had that was so important that they

2887
01:54:01,020 --> 01:53:59,590
would go to this extreme I mean keep in

2888
01:54:02,669 --> 01:54:01,030
mind if all you think is he was thinking

2889
01:54:04,169 --> 01:54:02,679
he was getting signals from UFOs and he

2890
01:54:05,609 --> 01:54:04,179
was talking to aliens do you think the

2891
01:54:07,169 --> 01:54:05,619
Air Force would involve themselves in

2892
01:54:08,370 --> 01:54:07,179
something like that they they tell him

2893
01:54:10,589 --> 01:54:08,380
to call him you phone or call somebody

2894
01:54:12,660 --> 01:54:10,599
else they'd shrug and pass him off they

2895
01:54:14,450 --> 01:54:12,670
would not go to this kind of potentially

2896
01:54:16,979 --> 01:54:14,460
years-long yeah they tell him to call me

2897
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:16,989
yeah well there you go but I'm just

2898
01:54:20,129 --> 01:54:19,210
saying I didn't call me either at least

2899
01:54:22,709 --> 01:54:20,139
I don't think so

2900
01:54:25,290 --> 01:54:22,719
yeah there was a question I believe one

2901
01:54:27,239 --> 01:54:25,300
of your listeners posted that asked

2902
01:54:28,979 --> 01:54:27,249
about the fact that you know why you

2903
01:54:30,540 --> 01:54:28,989
know what's the difference between any

2904
01:54:31,979 --> 01:54:30,550
of us who are interested in this subject

2905
01:54:34,339 --> 01:54:31,989
what what's the difference between our

2906
01:54:36,060 --> 01:54:34,349
other films and what Paul says why Paul

2907
01:54:37,530 --> 01:54:36,070
my

2908
01:54:40,290 --> 01:54:37,540
conclusion I guess you would say at this

2909
01:54:42,780 --> 01:54:40,300
stage my opinion is what Paul got he put

2910
01:54:44,970 --> 01:54:42,790
it in their backyard and he was somebody

2911
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:44,980
in the community he had contracts he was

2912
01:54:49,080 --> 01:54:47,170
a known issue he was a credible person

2913
01:54:50,879 --> 01:54:49,090
at that point why they didn't just go to

2914
01:54:53,399 --> 01:54:50,889
him and say Paul Paul Paul you know keep

2915
01:54:55,050 --> 01:54:53,409
it quiet or else for some reason it was

2916
01:54:57,600 --> 01:54:55,060
more important to admit nothing

2917
01:54:59,790 --> 01:54:57,610
and just damage this man's credibility

2918
01:55:02,040 --> 01:54:59,800
and go to this extreme effort and I

2919
01:55:03,510 --> 01:55:02,050
believe it's because he caught some

2920
01:55:05,459 --> 01:55:03,520
things that if anybody looked at what he

2921
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:05,469
had they would know and then they would

2922
01:55:09,510 --> 01:55:07,090
immediately turn their attention to the

2923
01:55:10,919 --> 01:55:09,520
air force and say what's going on here

2924
01:55:12,439 --> 01:55:10,929
you know what we'll have to find out

2925
01:55:15,839 --> 01:55:12,449
what's going on here

2926
01:55:18,089 --> 01:55:15,849
we have cristal hem bright we're talking

2927
01:55:20,310 --> 01:55:18,099
about the incredible case of Paul

2928
01:55:23,189 --> 01:55:20,320
bennewitz and how the government kind of

2929
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trying to mess him up we have race tan

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for joining us with gene Steinberg and

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Chris O'Brien you're in the para cat

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that's news at the para caste calm and

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if you'd like to catch up on past

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that's the para cast dot-com or check us

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02:00:14,670 --> 02:00:11,830
out at iTunes with gene and Chris in the

3039
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para cast we're exploring that new book

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02:00:20,130 --> 02:00:17,460
from Chris Lambright which is called X

3041
02:00:22,830 --> 02:00:20,140
descending we're also joined by ray

3042
02:00:23,820 --> 02:00:22,840
Stanford and now we're talking about how

3043
02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:23,830
the government

3044
02:00:28,200 --> 02:00:26,290
I guess singled out unfortunately Paul

3045
02:00:30,390 --> 02:00:28,210
bennewitz for their share of

3046
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:30,400
disinformation or do you think that

3047
02:00:35,190 --> 02:00:33,010
maybe Dodi and even Bill Moore were

3048
02:00:37,020 --> 02:00:35,200
acting on their own as opposed to with

3049
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:37,030
government sanction what do they do

3050
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:39,010
let's get into all the tales about what

3051
02:00:43,800 --> 02:00:41,530
they did and all the actions they took

3052
02:00:46,620 --> 02:00:43,810
to screw this guy up yeah good question

3053
02:00:48,570 --> 02:00:46,630
Jeanne not just the things moving around

3054
02:00:50,790 --> 02:00:48,580
the house it looks like maybe somebody's

3055
02:00:54,330 --> 02:00:50,800
trying to rob you it was more than that

3056
02:00:57,690 --> 02:00:54,340
yeah there there was obviously a serious

3057
02:00:59,730 --> 02:00:57,700
effort not only to an I suspect not only

3058
02:01:02,640 --> 02:00:59,740
to make Paul look like he was you know

3059
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:02,650
losing his grip to his family members

3060
02:01:07,500 --> 02:01:05,650
but to ensure that he was stuffed full

3061
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:07,510
of enough that they could also seem to

3062
02:01:10,770 --> 02:01:09,010
substantiate through other means either

3063
02:01:12,990 --> 02:01:10,780
other people would suggest things to him

3064
02:01:15,060 --> 02:01:13,000
or you know for example if he had an

3065
02:01:16,830 --> 02:01:15,070
interest in the dolfe the area and lo

3066
02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:16,840
and behold a girl comes right to his

3067
02:01:21,030 --> 02:01:18,610
door virtually she's led right to him

3068
02:01:22,590 --> 02:01:21,040
and under hypnosis says things that

3069
02:01:24,090 --> 02:01:22,600
immediately ratchet his attention back

3070
02:01:26,070 --> 02:01:24,100
up there things that if he tells me one

3071
02:01:27,210 --> 02:01:26,080
about you're going to wonder I did when

3072
02:01:29,370 --> 02:01:27,220
you began to talk about that I'm like

3073
02:01:32,430 --> 02:01:29,380
okay you know what wait a minute let's

3074
02:01:35,070 --> 02:01:32,440
let's back up hypnosis who we talking

3075
02:01:37,200 --> 02:01:35,080
about well we're talking about as Bill

3076
02:01:39,570 --> 02:01:37,210
Moore put it a way to diffuse Paul I

3077
02:01:41,490 --> 02:01:39,580
think the important aspect was when he

3078
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:41,500
finally called the Air Force if you look

3079
02:01:44,850 --> 02:01:43,090
you'll notice we don't have any real

3080
02:01:47,130 --> 02:01:44,860
clear information on what occurred in

3081
02:01:48,900 --> 02:01:47,140
the first four months after he called

3082
02:01:50,940 --> 02:01:48,910
and spoke with uh with Ernest Edwards

3083
02:01:54,270 --> 02:01:50,950
and I had someone who had been in naval

3084
02:01:55,500 --> 02:01:54,280
works tell me no they don't just sit and

3085
02:01:57,060 --> 02:01:55,510
wait to see what happens

3086
02:01:59,580 --> 02:01:57,070
things would be taken care of would be

3087
02:02:00,750 --> 02:01:59,590
on the burner immediately but you'll

3088
02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:00,760
notice that we don't really have much

3089
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:02,770
happening that we know of no document

3090
02:02:08,340 --> 02:02:05,650
tation until the Myrna Hansen events

3091
02:02:09,990 --> 02:02:08,350
occur and then suddenly in July you have

3092
02:02:12,090 --> 02:02:10,000
this what's the letter that gets fired

3093
02:02:13,770 --> 02:02:12,100
off to a pro now we do know Paul was

3094
02:02:15,510 --> 02:02:13,780
talking to a pro and apparently had been

3095
02:02:18,750 --> 02:02:15,520
into a lot of things that rightfully

3096
02:02:20,790 --> 02:02:18,760
bye-bye the first part of 1980 began to

3097
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:20,800
sound very bizarre but I think there's a

3098
02:02:24,150 --> 02:02:23,050
that's already interrupt but a pro is

3099
02:02:27,210 --> 02:02:24,160
the area phenomenon research

3100
02:02:30,300 --> 02:02:27,220
organization run by Jim and Cora Lorenz

3101
02:02:33,060 --> 02:02:30,310
and a longtime civilian investigative

3102
02:02:35,850 --> 02:02:33,070
and research organization now kind of

3103
02:02:37,290 --> 02:02:35,860
quasi defunct the original but I just

3104
02:02:38,940 --> 02:02:37,300
wanted to define the terms they're

3105
02:02:40,950 --> 02:02:38,950
apples you know they were top shelf

3106
02:02:43,710 --> 02:02:40,960
investigators in the day unfortunately

3107
02:02:46,620 --> 02:02:43,720
by the way Cora Lorenzen took a dislike

3108
02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:46,630
to me when I was in my late teens so for

3109
02:02:50,940 --> 02:02:48,490
the rest of her life

3110
02:02:53,220 --> 02:02:50,950
the very couple of rare occasions I met

3111
02:02:56,190 --> 02:02:53,230
her at a UFO event she continued to

3112
02:02:58,200 --> 02:02:56,200
snarl over one thing that upset her

3113
02:03:01,200 --> 02:02:58,210
which is because I published a photo in

3114
02:03:05,300 --> 02:03:01,210
a little UFO magazine and she felt she

3115
02:03:14,240 --> 02:03:05,310
didn't get the proper degree of respect

3116
02:03:16,830 --> 02:03:14,250
it was all about that that's true this

3117
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:16,840
arena is full of personalities I'll give

3118
02:03:20,850 --> 02:03:18,730
him that right so anyway Paul bennewitz

3119
02:03:22,710 --> 02:03:20,860
goes to Ephram so well yeah he had been

3120
02:03:24,570 --> 02:03:22,720
communicating with a pro and I believe

3121
02:03:26,250 --> 02:03:24,580
he may have even been back since the

3122
02:03:27,990 --> 02:03:26,260
interest in cattle mutilations but

3123
02:03:30,420 --> 02:03:28,000
needless to say that I believe was his

3124
02:03:32,130 --> 02:03:30,430
major point of contact my belief

3125
02:03:33,450 --> 02:03:32,140
initially at the begin during the

3126
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:33,460
beginning of all of this he was running

3127
02:03:36,900 --> 02:03:34,930
back and forth to a pro because they

3128
02:03:39,570 --> 02:03:36,910
were a very prominent group at the time

3129
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:39,580
and in Tucson but of course by this time

3130
02:03:42,240 --> 02:03:40,810
he's already called the air force and

3131
02:03:45,180 --> 02:03:42,250
then of course suddenly we have this

3132
02:03:47,070 --> 02:03:45,190
Wetzel letter being sent to a pro which

3133
02:03:48,900 --> 02:03:47,080
even Bill Moore in subsequent come out

3134
02:03:51,510 --> 02:03:48,910
said it was said as bait you think bait

3135
02:03:54,270 --> 02:03:51,520
to do what to draw somebody from a pro

3136
02:03:55,740 --> 02:03:54,280
to come up to to poke around the

3137
02:03:57,690 --> 02:03:55,750
Albuquerque area but of course then you

3138
02:03:59,760 --> 02:03:57,700
have all of this overtones of and my

3139
02:04:02,160 --> 02:03:59,770
take on it now and and I'm not claiming

3140
02:04:03,930 --> 02:04:02,170
to be the world's greatest analyst but I

3141
02:04:06,090 --> 02:04:03,940
did have a little bit of help and asking

3142
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:06,100
questions about counterintelligence work

3143
02:04:11,130 --> 02:04:09,010
and I tried my best to look at the facts

3144
02:04:12,240 --> 02:04:11,140
of what occurred when things occurred so

3145
02:04:15,030 --> 02:04:12,250
what's the letter went out in July

3146
02:04:16,410 --> 02:04:15,040
suddenly domore gets it but he did

3147
02:04:18,060 --> 02:04:16,420
nothing with it then he's recruited

3148
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:18,070
in some other way and this is when I

3149
02:04:22,410 --> 02:04:20,290
came to decide you know some of this

3150
02:04:25,200 --> 02:04:22,420
smells it's not adding up correctly as

3151
02:04:27,090 --> 02:04:25,210
totally independent individuals like you

3152
02:04:28,200 --> 02:04:27,100
mentioned asked if Richard Doty might

3153
02:04:30,900 --> 02:04:28,210
have been acting on his own

3154
02:04:32,130 --> 02:04:30,910
I don't think so now if only because we

3155
02:04:33,890 --> 02:04:32,140
know there were other people involved

3156
02:04:36,360 --> 02:04:33,900
and he has told me himself that his

3157
02:04:38,189 --> 02:04:36,370
supervisors told him to contact Jerry

3158
02:04:39,900 --> 02:04:38,199
Miller but then there was a big meeting

3159
02:04:41,910 --> 02:04:39,910
that went on in November with Brigadier

3160
02:04:44,370 --> 02:04:41,920
General William Brookshire and a couple

3161
02:04:46,860 --> 02:04:44,380
of others you know and and if you are

3162
02:04:49,050 --> 02:04:46,870
they enough Robert Haynes had written me

3163
02:04:50,939 --> 02:04:49,060
an email and I it reminded me that just

3164
02:04:54,300 --> 02:04:50,949
coincidentally William Brookshire in

3165
02:04:57,000 --> 02:04:54,310
November of 1989 Jimmy Robert Hastings

3166
02:04:58,650 --> 02:04:57,010
Robert obligations yeah he just at the

3167
02:05:00,870 --> 02:04:58,660
point simply as it reminded me of an odd

3168
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:00,880
coincidence I realized later that that

3169
02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:03,130
general Brookshire who was sitting in on

3170
02:05:07,169 --> 02:05:04,810
the meeting with Paul bennewitz five

3171
02:05:09,030 --> 02:05:07,179
years to two months earlier had been in

3172
02:05:11,100 --> 02:05:09,040
charge of the Malmstrom missile base

3173
02:05:13,050 --> 02:05:11,110
area right there the third or 41st I

3174
02:05:15,959 --> 02:05:13,060
think wing when there were inclusions

3175
02:05:19,350 --> 02:05:15,969
over Malmstrom so even at that one the

3176
02:05:20,939 --> 02:05:19,360
prussians yeah now what a coincidence or

3177
02:05:22,290 --> 02:05:20,949
not as I you know as I said I don't

3178
02:05:24,689 --> 02:05:22,300
think there are any real coincidences

3179
02:05:26,700 --> 02:05:24,699
but but needless to say you had a lot of

3180
02:05:28,590 --> 02:05:26,710
upper-level people involved in the

3181
02:05:30,600 --> 02:05:28,600
meeting with it with Paul bennewitz so

3182
02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:30,610
there's no way to say Richard Doty was

3183
02:05:34,979 --> 02:05:32,890
running this show himself and the fact

3184
02:05:36,810 --> 02:05:34,989
that of course he noted that as and as

3185
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:36,820
noted to me that there were a lot of

3186
02:05:41,550 --> 02:05:39,370
other Air Force AI agents involved with

3187
02:05:43,500 --> 02:05:41,560
him on this one of the points I think I

3188
02:05:45,570 --> 02:05:43,510
should I think is significant is we've

3189
02:05:47,490 --> 02:05:45,580
never heard any of their names any of

3190
02:05:49,620 --> 02:05:47,500
the admission bills confession anything

3191
02:05:50,850 --> 02:05:49,630
else stops at bill and Richard Doty so

3192
02:05:52,350 --> 02:05:50,860
if all of these other individuals were

3193
02:05:54,450 --> 02:05:52,360
involved why have they not been called

3194
02:05:56,070 --> 02:05:54,460
to account especially as great as Greg

3195
02:05:57,300 --> 02:05:56,080
Bishop indicated some of these people

3196
02:06:00,120 --> 02:05:57,310
went into Paul's house and these were

3197
02:06:02,189 --> 02:06:00,130
some major named Robert fugitives one of

3198
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:02,199
them we don't hear any of them saying a

3199
02:06:08,189 --> 02:06:04,690
word about it that lends ourselves to a

3200
02:06:10,080 --> 02:06:08,199
question from century who again has been

3201
02:06:13,020 --> 02:06:10,090
a para Castform poster for about a year

3202
02:06:15,959 --> 02:06:13,030
and his question is was Bill Moore a UFO

3203
02:06:17,550 --> 02:06:15,969
spy or a BS artist he points out that

3204
02:06:19,110 --> 02:06:17,560
Bill Moore is a key player in the

3205
02:06:21,680 --> 02:06:19,120
bennewitz story but it seems his

3206
02:06:25,260 --> 02:06:21,690
confession at the I think was the 89

3207
02:06:27,360 --> 02:06:25,270
MUFON conference was something he has he

3208
02:06:30,359 --> 02:06:27,370
was cornered into by allegations from

3209
02:06:32,879 --> 02:06:30,369
cause citizens against UFO secrets

3210
02:06:34,879 --> 02:06:32,889
and Robert Hastings more had been doing

3211
02:06:38,010 --> 02:06:34,889
shady things but mostly cloak-and-dagger

3212
02:06:39,930 --> 02:06:38,020
shenanigans as a showman to manipulate

3213
02:06:42,300 --> 02:06:39,940
interest in his products videotapes

3214
02:06:45,180 --> 02:06:42,310
books magazines conferences rather than

3215
02:06:47,939 --> 02:06:45,190
be exposed as a fraud it looks to

3216
02:06:50,790 --> 02:06:47,949
century that more chose to claim to be a

3217
02:06:53,160 --> 02:06:50,800
double agent really working a pro UFO

3218
02:06:54,839 --> 02:06:53,170
agenda this scheme doesn't seem to have

3219
02:06:56,790 --> 02:06:54,849
worked as planned and yet those

3220
02:06:59,189 --> 02:06:56,800
condemning wars seem to accept the bulk

3221
02:07:02,640 --> 02:06:59,199
of the confession story more later took

3222
02:07:04,649 --> 02:07:02,650
shots at head Hynek valet james harder

3223
02:07:06,149 --> 02:07:04,659
implicating them in the scheme against

3224
02:07:07,890 --> 02:07:06,159
Paul bennewitz Wow

3225
02:07:10,339 --> 02:07:07,900
looking at all this it seems to me that

3226
02:07:13,140 --> 02:07:10,349
more was just an opportunist

3227
02:07:15,689 --> 02:07:13,150
capitalizing on UFO anti-government

3228
02:07:18,180 --> 02:07:15,699
paranoia what do you have to say about

3229
02:07:20,220 --> 02:07:18,190
that about Bill more maybe we should ask

3230
02:07:22,020 --> 02:07:20,230
Greg Bishop that question - he's pretty

3231
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:22,030
good friends of them there yes fair

3232
02:07:26,430 --> 02:07:23,770
question and of course you know what I

3233
02:07:28,680 --> 02:07:26,440
would say is simply based upon my sense

3234
02:07:30,780 --> 02:07:28,690
from what I have seen and I'm certain

3235
02:07:33,060 --> 02:07:30,790
bill can tell his story and at this

3236
02:07:35,399 --> 02:07:33,070
particular point though it is known of

3237
02:07:37,830 --> 02:07:35,409
course not only that bill admitted to

3238
02:07:39,060 --> 02:07:37,840
this Richard Doty has admitted that he

3239
02:07:42,089 --> 02:07:39,070
and bill worked together when I

3240
02:07:45,149 --> 02:07:42,099
specifically asked to Bill about how he

3241
02:07:46,830 --> 02:07:45,159
could have recreated so to speak the in

3242
02:07:49,050 --> 02:07:46,840
NASA telex which he supposedly had

3243
02:07:50,669 --> 02:07:49,060
changed in sa originally and changed it

3244
02:07:53,040 --> 02:07:50,679
to say NASA that's why I got that

3245
02:07:54,540 --> 02:07:53,050
acronym NASA telex ons a telex you know

3246
02:07:56,370 --> 02:07:54,550
and he had told me on the telephone he

3247
02:07:58,439 --> 02:07:56,380
said I said how could you recall in such

3248
02:08:00,330 --> 02:07:58,449
detail if you were only showing this

3249
02:08:02,040 --> 02:08:00,340
thing but not allowed to make a copy he

3250
02:08:04,290 --> 02:08:02,050
said it it was based on the best

3251
02:08:06,060 --> 02:08:04,300
recollection of me and Richard Doty

3252
02:08:07,500 --> 02:08:06,070
which of course told me can obviously

3253
02:08:09,180 --> 02:08:07,510
Richard Doty had to have been right

3254
02:08:14,250 --> 02:08:09,190
there whenever that thing was present

3255
02:08:17,729 --> 02:08:14,260
for bill to see it yes Richard Doty we

3256
02:08:19,890 --> 02:08:17,739
have firstly we raised Stanford we have

3257
02:08:24,350 --> 02:08:19,900
gene Steinberg Chris O'Brien because

3258
02:08:28,879 --> 02:08:26,629
[Music]

3259
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3309
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3310
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3311
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3316
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3321
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3322
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3323
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3324
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3325
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3326
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3330
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a private bank having a lead packet

3331
02:11:17,910 --> 02:11:16,600
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3332
02:11:19,650 --> 02:11:17,920
this capitalism what was Jefferson

3333
02:11:21,270 --> 02:11:19,660
correct when stating a central bank

3334
02:11:22,710 --> 02:11:21,280
issuing the public currency is a greater

3335
02:11:24,630 --> 02:11:22,720
menace to the liberties of the people

3336
02:11:26,040 --> 02:11:24,640
than a standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

3337
02:11:27,870 --> 02:11:26,050
placing a free silver dollar in a book

3338
02:11:31,410 --> 02:11:27,880
that explains our monetary system call

3339
02:11:34,590 --> 02:11:31,420
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

3340
02:11:38,220 --> 02:11:34,600
to understand the system call 866 to 237

3341
02:11:40,500 --> 02:11:38,230
that's 800 686 to 237 what is the most

3342
02:11:42,450 --> 02:11:40,510
abundant resource on earth water it's

3343
02:11:43,980 --> 02:11:42,460
essential for sustaining life but it's

3344
02:11:46,200 --> 02:11:43,990
not always the most available when

3345
02:11:47,850 --> 02:11:46,210
disaster strikes water quickly vanishes

3346
02:11:50,760 --> 02:11:47,860
from store shelves like it did during

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02:11:52,440 --> 02:11:50,770
9/11 Katrina Japan and in Joplin three

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02:11:54,360 --> 02:11:52,450
days without water and your body begins

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02:11:56,100 --> 02:11:54,370
to shut down don't risk being without an

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abundant supply of water when the next

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02:11:59,910 --> 02:11:58,330
disaster hits get a flow jack hand well

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pump the affordable flow Jack drops

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access to plenty of cool clean water you

3357
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3358
02:12:12,660 --> 02:12:11,020
limited supply of stored water or you

3359
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could be prepared with the reliable

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3362
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3363
02:12:29,220 --> 02:12:25,150
comm be sure to spell FL o JK comm or

3364
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call 855 for flow Jack 855 for flow jack

3365
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that's eight five five four three five

3366
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six five two five proudly made in

3367
02:12:40,150 --> 02:12:35,590
America flow Jack hand well pumps peace

3368
02:12:40,160 --> 02:12:43,860
[Music]

3369
02:12:52,570 --> 02:12:46,810
you'll miss reading unders mean to the

3370
02:12:54,490 --> 02:12:52,580
parodius Chris Lambright author of X

3371
02:12:56,440 --> 02:12:54,500
descending race Stanford's here with

3372
02:12:58,720 --> 02:12:56,450
Chris O'Brien and Jean Steinberg and

3373
02:13:00,880 --> 02:12:58,730
we're trying to figure out what the heck

3374
02:13:02,740 --> 02:13:00,890
the government did to Paul bennewitz so

3375
02:13:05,740 --> 02:13:02,750
basically they're doing all sorts of

3376
02:13:08,080 --> 02:13:05,750
crazy things with him and you know he

3377
02:13:09,940 --> 02:13:08,090
never suspected that someone was really

3378
02:13:12,040 --> 02:13:09,950
just playing tricks on him well I think

3379
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:12,050
if you look at Greg bishops book Greg

3380
02:13:16,030 --> 02:13:13,610
Bishop did some good work in this book

3381
02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:16,040
and he he points out the fact which

3382
02:13:19,420 --> 02:13:17,810
which and I believe Paul had even

3383
02:13:21,070 --> 02:13:19,430
mentioned something along these lines to

3384
02:13:23,230 --> 02:13:21,080
me that Paul began to have his own

3385
02:13:25,570 --> 02:13:23,240
suspicions not only about a house across

3386
02:13:27,520 --> 02:13:25,580
the street but potentially that things

3387
02:13:29,680 --> 02:13:27,530
were not what they seemed I know at one

3388
02:13:31,780 --> 02:13:29,690
point he had a parting of the ways with

3389
02:13:34,240 --> 02:13:31,790
Leo sprinkle over what he thought he was

3390
02:13:35,950 --> 02:13:34,250
doing but my suspicion and in all the

3391
02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:35,960
time I ever talked to Paul he clearly

3392
02:13:40,300 --> 02:13:37,850
you know an analytical mind even though

3393
02:13:41,920 --> 02:13:40,310
some of the things he may say were way

3394
02:13:45,040 --> 02:13:41,930
out of the box as far as my experience

3395
02:13:47,620 --> 02:13:45,050
but I don't have any reason to believe

3396
02:13:49,840 --> 02:13:47,630
that he didn't suspect eventually that

3397
02:13:51,130 --> 02:13:49,850
things were not all kosher that some of

3398
02:13:53,590 --> 02:13:51,140
the friends that he thought he had

3399
02:13:56,110 --> 02:13:53,600
worked or maybe were not friends as such

3400
02:13:58,060 --> 02:13:56,120
and I'm convinced based on some of the

3401
02:13:59,830 --> 02:13:58,070
things that I saw and that I found and

3402
02:14:02,110 --> 02:13:59,840
that I heard and and some of the things

3403
02:14:04,480 --> 02:14:02,120
that Bishop outlined that that Paul did

3404
02:14:06,400 --> 02:14:04,490
have some suspicions that you know maybe

3405
02:14:07,450 --> 02:14:06,410
the house across the street I think or

3406
02:14:10,840 --> 02:14:07,460
across the corner somewhere

3407
02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:10,850
may have been positioned in a way that

3408
02:14:13,780 --> 02:14:12,050
the people that were going in there

3409
02:14:15,250 --> 02:14:13,790
certainly weren't aliens so at that

3410
02:14:17,110 --> 02:14:15,260
particular time I don't know that

3411
02:14:19,240 --> 02:14:17,120
there's really a justifiable reason to

3412
02:14:21,490 --> 02:14:19,250
think that Paul never had a clue but

3413
02:14:23,260 --> 02:14:21,500
then again if you have all your friends

3414
02:14:24,100 --> 02:14:23,270
are in it together and not telling you

3415
02:14:25,630 --> 02:14:24,110
what's going on

3416
02:14:27,970 --> 02:14:25,640
if it comes very difficult to know who

3417
02:14:29,530 --> 02:14:27,980
to believe and at some point you maybe

3418
02:14:31,030 --> 02:14:29,540
decide that you couldn't be fooled by

3419
02:14:32,950 --> 02:14:31,040
everybody or you're you know you're

3420
02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:32,960
sharp enough not to be fooled by it and

3421
02:14:36,520 --> 02:14:34,970
like some of the con men tell you that's

3422
02:14:38,860 --> 02:14:36,530
the person they want to meet the person

3423
02:14:41,140 --> 02:14:38,870
who can gee I hate when that happens I

3424
02:14:43,060 --> 02:14:41,150
hate it i don't know i mean i think that

3425
02:14:45,760 --> 02:14:43,070
evidence clearly shows though that there

3426
02:14:47,530 --> 02:14:45,770
was a long effort elaborate effort to

3427
02:14:50,230 --> 02:14:47,540
mess him up to the point of getting

3428
02:14:52,120 --> 02:14:50,240
people to write him off to dismiss what

3429
02:14:52,930 --> 02:14:52,130
he had and that's why i told everyone

3430
02:14:56,140 --> 02:14:52,940
the only reason i

3431
02:14:58,090 --> 02:14:56,150
focused on a very original period when

3432
02:15:00,130 --> 02:14:58,100
he got these films up to the point that

3433
02:15:01,479 --> 02:15:00,140
he called the airforce when when before

3434
02:15:03,729 --> 02:15:01,489
they knew what he was doing and that he

3435
02:15:05,890 --> 02:15:03,739
was up there I think that's still

3436
02:15:08,110 --> 02:15:05,900
relatively pristine evidence and if you

3437
02:15:10,060 --> 02:15:08,120
look at it it clearly shows something

3438
02:15:12,760 --> 02:15:10,070
that's not just little lights on film

3439
02:15:14,350 --> 02:15:12,770
and he got something that was and once

3440
02:15:16,360 --> 02:15:14,360
again he wasn't the only witness to this

3441
02:15:17,740 --> 02:15:16,370
other people saw this but once he called

3442
02:15:19,930 --> 02:15:17,750
the Air Force and they knew what he was

3443
02:15:20,590 --> 02:15:19,940
doing he I had to say kind of all bets

3444
02:15:23,620 --> 02:15:20,600
are off

3445
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:23,630
yeah yeah the carnival came to town let

3446
02:15:26,800 --> 02:15:25,370
me ask you a question here wouldn't it

3447
02:15:29,290 --> 02:15:26,810
have made sense and we're certainly

3448
02:15:31,390 --> 02:15:29,300
looking with hindsight here to simply

3449
02:15:33,490 --> 02:15:31,400
ganda Paul bennewitz says a loyal

3450
02:15:36,100 --> 02:15:33,500
American said you know what we can't

3451
02:15:39,130 --> 02:15:36,110
talk about this that's it you know keep

3452
02:15:41,530 --> 02:15:39,140
it quiet this is for your country for

3453
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:41,540
God in country whatever yeah I agree I

3454
02:15:45,310 --> 02:15:43,010
mean that's why I put that point in

3455
02:15:47,350 --> 02:15:45,320
there about Chuck Clark and in the area

3456
02:15:49,450 --> 02:15:47,360
51 but you know and I've had other

3457
02:15:51,790 --> 02:15:49,460
people tell me the same naval person

3458
02:15:54,340 --> 02:15:51,800
that had talked to me who said look they

3459
02:15:56,680 --> 02:15:54,350
prosecute spies they prosecute leakers

3460
02:15:58,840 --> 02:15:56,690
look at the WikiLeaks guy you send them

3461
02:16:00,340 --> 02:15:58,850
away for as long as you can not only to

3462
02:16:02,110 --> 02:16:00,350
make the point but because it makes the

3463
02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:02,120
point to everybody else why they would

3464
02:16:05,890 --> 02:16:04,370
not have gone to Paul and said Paul see

3465
02:16:08,229 --> 02:16:05,900
the signs on the fence here and look

3466
02:16:10,240 --> 02:16:08,239
what you're doing we can undermine all

3467
02:16:12,520 --> 02:16:10,250
your contracts we can do but that in

3468
02:16:14,979 --> 02:16:12,530
itself is an admission that's letting

3469
02:16:17,050 --> 02:16:14,989
someone know that you've got something

3470
02:16:19,840 --> 02:16:17,060
that you know is worth keeping and and

3471
02:16:21,970 --> 02:16:19,850
of course the distillation but my

3472
02:16:23,350 --> 02:16:21,980
therefore because they don't want to

3473
02:16:25,590 --> 02:16:23,360
confirm to him what's going on they just

3474
02:16:28,750 --> 02:16:25,600
screw him up but they can he get into

3475
02:16:31,120 --> 02:16:28,760
basically a mental institution because

3476
02:16:34,060 --> 02:16:31,130
of what happened my understanding was

3477
02:16:38,259 --> 02:16:34,070
that he had some kind of a breakdown or

3478
02:16:40,030 --> 02:16:38,269
an emotional strain the last bit and to

3479
02:16:42,250 --> 02:16:40,040
this day it is one of the hardest things

3480
02:16:45,250 --> 02:16:42,260
for me to accept that the last time I

3481
02:16:47,230 --> 02:16:45,260
had spoken to him was just shortly after

3482
02:16:49,839 --> 02:16:47,240
bill excuse me nothing laughter John

3483
02:16:51,610 --> 02:16:49,849
Lear said go on to Paul's house I was

3484
02:16:55,179 --> 02:16:51,620
never told and never able to find out

3485
02:16:58,570 --> 02:16:55,189
what the problem was but Paul was livid

3486
02:17:00,009 --> 02:16:58,580
about Lear for some reason I think I

3487
02:17:02,469 --> 02:17:00,019
spell this out the best I could in the

3488
02:17:04,870 --> 02:17:02,479
book after that I mean he was he was

3489
02:17:06,700 --> 02:17:04,880
just I mean going on and I was like Paul

3490
02:17:08,169 --> 02:17:06,710
I don't you know I had nothing to

3491
02:17:09,730 --> 02:17:08,179
with him going to us I tried the best I

3492
02:17:11,200 --> 02:17:09,740
could to assure Paul I had nothing to do

3493
02:17:12,879 --> 02:17:11,210
it and there's a matter with the films

3494
02:17:14,290 --> 02:17:12,889
that we can potentially or at least the

3495
02:17:16,540 --> 02:17:14,300
pictures Paul sent me that we can get

3496
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:16,550
into some other time that were given

3497
02:17:20,469 --> 02:17:19,130
back to Lear but needless to say within

3498
02:17:21,820 --> 02:17:20,479
a few days we learned how called and

3499
02:17:23,950 --> 02:17:21,830
sent if you talk to Paul his phone

3500
02:17:25,990 --> 02:17:23,960
numbers been unlisted and I checked and

3501
02:17:28,120 --> 02:17:26,000
sure enough and I tried many times to

3502
02:17:29,919 --> 02:17:28,130
get to him I expected him to call me I

3503
02:17:31,540 --> 02:17:29,929
really honestly did he'll call me in a

3504
02:17:34,540 --> 02:17:31,550
few days and tell me you know what does

3505
02:17:36,100 --> 02:17:34,550
any number was and clearly well that was

3506
02:17:37,719 --> 02:17:36,110
when he had I'd have a feeling he may

3507
02:17:39,160 --> 02:17:37,729
have had a breakdown of some sort after

3508
02:17:41,860 --> 02:17:39,170
that and that's why the family changed

3509
02:17:45,790 --> 02:17:41,870
the number but I don't know Chris that

3510
02:17:47,969 --> 02:17:45,800
brings me to you know a healthily

3511
02:17:51,190 --> 02:17:47,979
skeptical question from both the worst

3512
02:17:52,990 --> 02:17:51,200
one of our you know again posters here

3513
02:17:55,480 --> 02:17:53,000
at the Forum and he asked if Paul

3514
02:17:57,310 --> 02:17:55,490
bennewitz really was caught up in some

3515
02:17:59,680 --> 02:17:57,320
counterintelligence operation

3516
02:18:01,360 --> 02:17:59,690
why didn't similar things or why don't

3517
02:18:04,140 --> 02:18:01,370
some allure things happen to people like

3518
02:18:06,969 --> 02:18:04,150
Stanton Friedman or maybe to you mrs.

3519
02:18:10,120 --> 02:18:06,979
Lambright and mr. Stanford or maybe even

3520
02:18:12,430 --> 02:18:10,130
Jean and Chris or are there events that

3521
02:18:13,270 --> 02:18:12,440
might have had something to do with that

3522
02:18:15,790 --> 02:18:13,280
I know

3523
02:18:17,709 --> 02:18:15,800
I'd be more than a little concerned if I

3524
02:18:20,049 --> 02:18:17,719
were in a position of possibly

3525
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:20,059
interfering with government secrecy well

3526
02:18:26,200 --> 02:18:22,490
I will tell you I doubt any of us are

3527
02:18:28,480 --> 02:18:26,210
not good patriotic citizens if someone

3528
02:18:30,280 --> 02:18:28,490
came to me and said look this is what's

3529
02:18:32,129 --> 02:18:30,290
going on and they could do it in a way

3530
02:18:35,830 --> 02:18:32,139
that convinced me it was the truth and

3531
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:35,840
this is why we need you to be quiet or

3532
02:18:39,669 --> 02:18:38,090
what not I don't have any reason I don't

3533
02:18:41,709 --> 02:18:39,679
have any reason to think Paul would not

3534
02:18:43,419 --> 02:18:41,719
have had the same feelings we would all

3535
02:18:47,049 --> 02:18:43,429
have had what's the right thing to do I

3536
02:18:49,299 --> 02:18:47,059
mean I am in no interest in you know in

3537
02:18:51,730 --> 02:18:49,309
outing the government secrets I mean I'm

3538
02:18:54,730 --> 02:18:51,740
not a I just you know I don't want to do

3539
02:18:57,459 --> 02:18:54,740
that anymore I mean I don't but if any

3540
02:18:59,350 --> 02:18:57,469
others took picture rays pictures I know

3541
02:19:01,000 --> 02:18:59,360
what's in there Chris O'Brien is saying

3542
02:19:02,830 --> 02:19:01,010
you know people who see them know what's

3543
02:19:05,200 --> 02:19:02,840
in there but it doesn't put it in the

3544
02:19:06,969 --> 02:19:05,210
Air Force's backyard they'd they can

3545
02:19:08,530 --> 02:19:06,979
shrug they can throw up their hands they

3546
02:19:10,780 --> 02:19:08,540
can do what they want anything I might

3547
02:19:11,709 --> 02:19:10,790
say stand Friedman's you know and of

3548
02:19:13,810 --> 02:19:11,719
course I don't know everything Stan

3549
02:19:15,790 --> 02:19:13,820
Friedman has but he always seems

3550
02:19:17,379 --> 02:19:15,800
credible enough if someone come there

3551
02:19:18,820 --> 02:19:17,389
they K someone came out and Clark like I

3552
02:19:20,200 --> 02:19:18,830
said if Paul had claimed oh it's all

3553
02:19:22,030 --> 02:19:20,210
aliens and I've got them all on film

3554
02:19:23,589 --> 02:19:22,040
but they were not fill if they were

3555
02:19:26,530 --> 02:19:23,599
filmed at the art Salado Mesa there of

3556
02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:26,540
course might just go calm you fond but

3557
02:19:30,850 --> 02:19:29,210
if you had something that and I've heard

3558
02:19:33,150 --> 02:19:30,860
from other people that Paul may have had

3559
02:19:35,709 --> 02:19:33,160
far more definitive things on that film

3560
02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:35,719
then like the description I gave where

3561
02:19:38,500 --> 02:19:37,010
he wrote about having seen what he

3562
02:19:41,020 --> 02:19:38,510
thought was someone with a flashlight

3563
02:19:42,580 --> 02:19:41,030
walking around underneath one of the

3564
02:19:45,009 --> 02:19:42,590
objects when it was on the ground down

3565
02:19:47,230 --> 02:19:45,019
there now whatever he might have had on

3566
02:19:48,790 --> 02:19:47,240
film or for all I know maybe during the

3567
02:19:50,860 --> 02:19:48,800
daytime he went back and filmed the same

3568
02:19:52,120 --> 02:19:50,870
area and got some other things showing

3569
02:19:53,950 --> 02:19:52,130
where the you see what I'm getting at

3570
02:19:57,250 --> 02:19:53,960
maybe he had more than I'm even aware of

3571
02:19:59,350 --> 02:19:57,260
but for whatever reason I think the fact

3572
02:20:01,719 --> 02:19:59,360
that what he had the evidence of the

3573
02:20:04,450 --> 02:20:01,729
vehicles that he got and the fact of

3574
02:20:06,520 --> 02:20:04,460
where he got him that there was no way

3575
02:20:07,960 --> 02:20:06,530
to deny what he had on film and that

3576
02:20:10,330 --> 02:20:07,970
Paul had enough credibility and

3577
02:20:12,790 --> 02:20:10,340
reputation to be listened to by people

3578
02:20:14,410 --> 02:20:12,800
who might take you know and at the same

3579
02:20:17,110 --> 02:20:14,420
time perhaps there was some honest

3580
02:20:19,240 --> 02:20:17,120
concern that if it was known to the

3581
02:20:21,160 --> 02:20:19,250
Russians that he had filmed him over a

3582
02:20:22,360 --> 02:20:21,170
military installation that it might I

3583
02:20:23,950 --> 02:20:22,370
don't know maybe there was some other

3584
02:20:26,380 --> 02:20:23,960
kind of political considerations or

3585
02:20:27,580 --> 02:20:26,390
military as to why they would not why

3586
02:20:30,010 --> 02:20:27,590
they would want to defuse Paul

3587
02:20:31,870 --> 02:20:30,020
specifically so I think there's a

3588
02:20:34,450 --> 02:20:31,880
potential out there and I'm not believe

3589
02:20:37,090 --> 02:20:34,460
me I'm not saying that the people whose

3590
02:20:40,330 --> 02:20:37,100
jobs it was Colonel Edwards Richard Doty

3591
02:20:41,950 --> 02:20:40,340
some who are necessarily bad people I'm

3592
02:20:44,350 --> 02:20:41,960
not sure what we would any of us would

3593
02:20:46,030 --> 02:20:44,360
do if we were in a position that that's

3594
02:20:49,090 --> 02:20:46,040
our role and we have to play it out

3595
02:20:50,950 --> 02:20:49,100
they've got a job description you got to

3596
02:20:53,380 --> 02:20:50,960
go with it well what do you think about

3597
02:20:55,750 --> 02:20:53,390
the whole idea of the

3598
02:20:59,469 --> 02:20:55,760
counterintelligence operation kind of

3599
02:21:03,070 --> 02:20:59,479
trying to deflect Benowitz ha's interest

3600
02:21:04,930 --> 02:21:03,080
in Manzano and Kirtland up to Dulce and

3601
02:21:07,030 --> 02:21:04,940
that brings us into a whole nother

3602
02:21:10,210 --> 02:21:07,040
another realm that probably deserves

3603
02:21:11,590 --> 02:21:10,220
almost an entire era cast show but no

3604
02:21:14,830 --> 02:21:11,600
kidding I wish Kate Valdez was still

3605
02:21:17,950 --> 02:21:14,840
alive for that ones or Tom Adams around

3606
02:21:20,920 --> 02:21:17,960
but any Greg Bishop as well once again

3607
02:21:22,480 --> 02:21:20,930
it seems to me from what I from the

3608
02:21:25,450 --> 02:21:22,490
looking at all of this and trying to put

3609
02:21:27,969 --> 02:21:25,460
a piece the pieces together that the

3610
02:21:31,480 --> 02:21:27,979
primary goal was to get his attention

3611
02:21:33,610 --> 02:21:31,490
focused on someplace that they had far

3612
02:21:34,090 --> 02:21:33,620
better control that was looking a

3613
02:21:36,490 --> 02:21:34,100
hundred

3614
02:21:38,290 --> 02:21:36,500
degrees from where they wanted you and

3615
02:21:40,210 --> 02:21:38,300
me to be looking if he's talking Dulce

3616
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:40,220
and all of that everybody's focusing up

3617
02:21:45,070 --> 02:21:42,170
there and all they needed to do was

3618
02:21:46,630 --> 02:21:45,080
potentially you know stroke in a little

3619
02:21:48,700 --> 02:21:46,640
bit by putting them on some helicopter

3620
02:21:50,139 --> 02:21:48,710
flights and fall tempering some

3621
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:50,149
interesting-looking things on the ground

3622
02:21:54,070 --> 02:21:52,010
down below this yeah and that's a little

3623
02:21:56,380 --> 02:21:54,080
chill right there yeah yeah so I mean

3624
02:21:58,269 --> 02:21:56,390
I'm just saying I seems to me and I will

3625
02:22:00,700 --> 02:21:58,279
make a point just so that ever knows and

3626
02:22:02,889 --> 02:22:00,710
I don't want to bring up Roswell but the

3627
02:22:03,969 --> 02:22:02,899
analogy between that in this case is for

3628
02:22:05,349 --> 02:22:03,979
all I know the whole point of getting

3629
02:22:07,120 --> 02:22:05,359
people to look at Roswell is so we're

3630
02:22:10,300 --> 02:22:07,130
not looking somewhere else it's a

3631
02:22:14,170 --> 02:22:10,310
direction kind of a special right we

3632
02:22:16,059 --> 02:22:14,180
have Chris Lambright race Stanford with

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02:25:55,960 --> 02:25:53,600
the time to act is now the country is

3719
02:25:58,180 --> 02:25:55,970
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3720
02:26:01,180 --> 02:25:58,190
seeds before it's too late at organic

3721
02:26:03,220 --> 02:26:01,190
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3722
02:26:05,890 --> 02:26:03,230
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3723
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3724
02:26:09,820 --> 02:26:07,670
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3725
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3726
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3727
02:26:18,310 --> 02:26:15,500
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3728
02:26:21,011 --> 02:26:18,320
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3729
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3730
02:26:26,530 --> 02:26:23,660
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3731
02:26:29,740 --> 02:26:26,540
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3732
02:26:33,301 --> 02:26:29,750
hours so head over to organic acid calm

3733
02:26:40,520 --> 02:26:33,311
that's a rgan I see ace

3734
02:26:44,940 --> 02:26:40,530
dot-com organic acid calm today hi the

3735
02:26:46,921 --> 02:26:44,950
thing to the parrot job we'd love to

3736
02:26:49,291 --> 02:26:46,931
have you subscribe to our newsletter you

3737
02:26:51,421 --> 02:26:49,301
can get updated schedules for the shows

3738
02:26:53,671 --> 02:26:51,431
cutting-edge commentaries from me from

3739
02:26:56,190 --> 02:26:53,681
Chris and special guest commentators

3740
02:26:59,310 --> 02:26:56,200
such as Curt southerly all this and more

3741
02:27:02,161 --> 02:26:59,320
the official para cast newsletter go-to

3742
02:27:04,770 --> 02:27:02,171
newsletter dot the para cast comm

3743
02:27:07,110 --> 02:27:04,780
newsletter doctor para cast com

3744
02:27:09,751 --> 02:27:07,120
it's free Chris Lambright author of X

3745
02:27:12,150 --> 02:27:09,761
descending race Stanford of course well

3746
02:27:14,041 --> 02:27:12,160
known for his research to many cases and

3747
02:27:16,591 --> 02:27:14,051
clings to karo New Mexico Chris O'Brien

3748
02:27:18,631 --> 02:27:16,601
well-known because he's a man about town

3749
02:27:21,360 --> 02:27:18,641
who learn in the Orient incredible power

3750
02:27:23,190 --> 02:27:21,370
to cloud men's minds so they cannot see

3751
02:27:31,201 --> 02:27:23,200
him though that's the wrong person that

3752
02:27:33,991 --> 02:27:31,211
was LeMond Idris my god I just I was on

3753
02:27:36,121 --> 02:27:34,001
a riff my friend okay well yeah okay

3754
02:27:38,491 --> 02:27:36,131
I'll use the T word sometimes I can be

3755
02:27:41,671 --> 02:27:38,501
like tips Trish that's right

3756
02:27:43,770 --> 02:27:41,681
you cloud men's minds so they cannot see

3757
02:27:46,110 --> 02:27:43,780
you I like to be able to do that a lot

3758
02:27:48,570 --> 02:27:46,120
of fun we're not talking about invisible

3759
02:27:51,241 --> 02:27:48,580
UFOs we're talking about how they really

3760
02:27:53,400 --> 02:27:51,251
freaked out Paul bennewitz how people

3761
02:27:54,871 --> 02:27:53,410
like William Moore did that was William

3762
02:27:58,951 --> 02:27:54,881
Moore doing these days he's still around

3763
02:28:01,230 --> 02:27:58,961
what's happened to him what I'm tellin

3764
02:28:02,850 --> 02:28:01,240
ya yeah I agree Craig Bishop would be

3765
02:28:04,261 --> 02:28:02,860
the person to ask about that you know I

3766
02:28:05,850 --> 02:28:04,271
do want to disqualify and I'll make this

3767
02:28:07,860 --> 02:28:05,860
very short something ray brought up

3768
02:28:10,440 --> 02:28:07,870
there during the break which is there's

3769
02:28:13,081 --> 02:28:10,450
no reason to book to not to assume or to

3770
02:28:14,911 --> 02:28:13,091
believe that once Paul got into what he

3771
02:28:17,070 --> 02:28:14,921
was getting into that they may have

3772
02:28:19,381 --> 02:28:17,080
wanted also see other effects so you

3773
02:28:20,940 --> 02:28:19,391
know they could have used him as a means

3774
02:28:22,711 --> 02:28:20,950
of counterintelligence to see what he

3775
02:28:24,421 --> 02:28:22,721
was doing to watch what happened I mean

3776
02:28:25,980 --> 02:28:24,431
we can't really say none of this is

3777
02:28:27,211 --> 02:28:25,990
exclusionary in other words one thing

3778
02:28:28,980 --> 02:28:27,221
doesn't necessarily exclude the other

3779
02:28:30,810 --> 02:28:28,990
so there may have been any number of

3780
02:28:33,121 --> 02:28:30,820
reasons why they took the route that

3781
02:28:35,251 --> 02:28:33,131
they did with Paul at least years they

3782
02:28:37,770 --> 02:28:35,261
could have identified a Benowitz as a

3783
02:28:39,810 --> 02:28:37,780
really acute observer someone with

3784
02:28:41,730 --> 02:28:39,820
observational acuity and then when

3785
02:28:43,860 --> 02:28:41,740
Edwards took him on that helicopter

3786
02:28:47,011 --> 02:28:43,870
flight to dulce for the first time bana

3787
02:28:50,100 --> 02:28:47,021
woods had CIA supplied film

3788
02:28:53,011 --> 02:28:50,110
and a camera system sealed in a lead box

3789
02:28:55,770 --> 02:28:53,021
that they were able to obtain object

3790
02:28:58,110 --> 02:28:55,780
photos approaching helicopter I believe

3791
02:29:00,150 --> 02:28:58,120
on the first trip to Dulce this all

3792
02:29:03,810 --> 02:29:00,160
comes from Ron Regehr you know our

3793
02:29:06,570 --> 02:29:03,820
aerospace engineer and he's still trying

3794
02:29:09,450 --> 02:29:06,580
to get his photographs back from gabe

3795
02:29:12,511 --> 02:29:09,460
Valdez's estate that were taken by

3796
02:29:14,490 --> 02:29:12,521
bennewitz sent to ron and he sent them

3797
02:29:16,650 --> 02:29:14,500
to gave and has yet to get him back I

3798
02:29:18,270 --> 02:29:16,660
just wanted to kind of mention that well

3799
02:29:20,490 --> 02:29:18,280
I'll be honest with you I've never heard

3800
02:29:22,140 --> 02:29:20,500
anything like that now but at the same

3801
02:29:24,540 --> 02:29:22,150
time I called I'm not that does not

3802
02:29:26,310 --> 02:29:24,550
dismiss it it's simply that once Paul

3803
02:29:28,500 --> 02:29:26,320
called the Air Force and they knew what

3804
02:29:30,720 --> 02:29:28,510
he was up to and the fix was in so to

3805
02:29:33,180 --> 02:29:30,730
speak I would have to you know I

3806
02:29:35,700 --> 02:29:33,190
personally would really hold at arm's

3807
02:29:37,140 --> 02:29:35,710
length any real conviction over what you

3808
02:29:38,881 --> 02:29:37,150
know what he might have or what might

3809
02:29:40,500 --> 02:29:38,891
have been acquired you know after the

3810
02:29:42,421 --> 02:29:40,510
fact especially letting them the very

3811
02:29:43,140 --> 02:29:42,431
fact that he acquired it I think is

3812
02:29:45,660 --> 02:29:43,150
noteworthy

3813
02:29:47,250 --> 02:29:45,670
well how he how he got it I'm here a lot

3814
02:29:49,950 --> 02:29:47,260
of things in Bishop went into about

3815
02:29:52,500 --> 02:29:49,960
Gilmour claiming that Hynek had handed

3816
02:29:53,580 --> 02:29:52,510
Paula an air force supplied computer

3817
02:29:55,290 --> 02:29:53,590
without telling him the Air Force

3818
02:29:56,850 --> 02:29:55,300
supplied it you know so at that point

3819
02:29:59,190 --> 02:29:56,860
who knows what was on it or what Paul

3820
02:30:00,780 --> 02:29:59,200
was getting from it he he believed he

3821
02:30:02,671 --> 02:30:00,790
was doing some good work with it but at

3822
02:30:04,890 --> 02:30:02,681
that stage how do you know it's just

3823
02:30:07,080 --> 02:30:04,900
it's a sad frustrating story to really

3824
02:30:09,990 --> 02:30:07,090
know what to believe after after a point

3825
02:30:11,100 --> 02:30:10,000
strain I didn't know that I totally

3826
02:30:13,650 --> 02:30:11,110
forgot about that

3827
02:30:15,330 --> 02:30:13,660
Hynek gave Benowitz an Air Force

3828
02:30:18,600 --> 02:30:15,340
computer and didn't tell him that's

3829
02:30:20,190 --> 02:30:18,610
where it was from my area well according

3830
02:30:22,770 --> 02:30:20,200
to Bill Moore through through Greg

3831
02:30:27,000 --> 02:30:22,780
Bishop Greg I totally forgot about that

3832
02:30:28,591 --> 02:30:27,010
that's it well yeah I don't know what to

3833
02:30:30,750 --> 02:30:28,601
believe of that or what to even think of

3834
02:30:33,060 --> 02:30:30,760
that because it really says it cast

3835
02:30:34,921 --> 02:30:33,070
aspersions upon Hynek and he's no longer

3836
02:30:37,080 --> 02:30:34,931
here to say anything about it or defend

3837
02:30:39,450 --> 02:30:37,090
it so I just have to say it's a bill

3838
02:30:41,040 --> 02:30:39,460
more Greg Bishop says that bill Moore

3839
02:30:42,240 --> 02:30:41,050
told him this I have never heard

3840
02:30:44,370 --> 02:30:42,250
anything like it but it was a rather

3841
02:30:46,080 --> 02:30:44,380
shocking allegation let's just say is

3842
02:30:49,711 --> 02:30:46,090
there any reason to assume there was

3843
02:30:52,440 --> 02:30:49,721
anything unsavory about what dr. Hynek

3844
02:30:54,631 --> 02:30:52,450
did during his years of being a positive

3845
02:30:56,940 --> 02:30:54,641
influence in UFO research you know I

3846
02:31:00,230 --> 02:30:56,950
don't know we don't know what you know

3847
02:31:02,060 --> 02:31:00,240
what pressures were on him or what yeah

3848
02:31:05,600 --> 02:31:02,070
let's stow that in Ray's direction ray

3849
02:31:07,310 --> 02:31:05,610
when did you meet Allen Hynek and I mean

3850
02:31:11,090 --> 02:31:07,320
I've seen letters you show me letters

3851
02:31:12,950 --> 02:31:11,100
correspondence that you've had with you

3852
02:31:15,560 --> 02:31:12,960
know you had over the years with Hynek

3853
02:31:18,170 --> 02:31:15,570
what do you think about that you you met

3854
02:31:19,910 --> 02:31:18,180
Hynek way back I had been in

3855
02:31:22,670 --> 02:31:19,920
correspondence with an external

3856
02:31:24,740 --> 02:31:22,680
connection with the July 28 1959 a

3857
02:31:26,350 --> 02:31:24,750
double filming of mothership with

3858
02:31:29,900 --> 02:31:26,360
smaller optics in Corpus Christi Texas

3859
02:31:32,450 --> 02:31:29,910
since some time I guess in late 59 but I

3860
02:31:36,950 --> 02:31:32,460
didn't physically meet him until in

3861
02:31:38,990 --> 02:31:36,960
Socorro Carl yeah so there was and you

3862
02:31:42,200 --> 02:31:39,000
know my experiences with him we're very

3863
02:31:44,060 --> 02:31:42,210
positive and very good the you know I

3864
02:31:47,060 --> 02:31:44,070
mean he was always very friendly visit

3865
02:31:50,719 --> 02:31:47,070
us and he seemed very open I have my

3866
02:31:51,800 --> 02:31:50,729
personal opinions about I believe that

3867
02:31:53,930 --> 02:31:51,810
he was still working for a government

3868
02:31:57,080 --> 02:31:53,940
after project Bluebook closed down in

3869
02:31:59,900 --> 02:31:57,090
some capacity and in fact people who

3870
02:32:05,120 --> 02:31:59,910
closer to him than I was have said as

3871
02:32:06,410 --> 02:32:05,130
much but yeah but Ray was he still

3872
02:32:08,510 --> 02:32:06,420
working there when they had the Center

3873
02:32:09,710 --> 02:32:08,520
for UFO studies was he still working

3874
02:32:12,650 --> 02:32:09,720
there when he was going out and

3875
02:32:15,530 --> 02:32:12,660
lecturing as someone who had a positive

3876
02:32:18,290 --> 02:32:15,540
viewpoint of UFO reality yes I believe

3877
02:32:22,640 --> 02:32:18,300
so I think so and not only that but

3878
02:32:24,560 --> 02:32:22,650
there's for example now he had his 1984

3879
02:32:26,480 --> 02:32:24,570
the the KU post conference the one that

3880
02:32:27,890 --> 02:32:26,490
a lot of the UFO people were upset they

3881
02:32:31,910 --> 02:32:27,900
weren't invited to I was invited to

3882
02:32:34,280 --> 02:32:31,920
speak there but the effect conference he

3883
02:32:35,600 --> 02:32:34,290
had dr. jean-pierre party of the French

3884
02:32:37,360 --> 02:32:35,610
National Science Center who was doing

3885
02:32:39,890 --> 02:32:37,370
research on Magna high damage Airlines

3886
02:32:46,010 --> 02:32:39,900
presented a paper about magnetic

3887
02:32:49,490 --> 02:32:46,020
induction and he in fact went to the CIA

3888
02:32:52,480 --> 02:32:49,500
with with all of the papers that with

3889
02:32:54,800 --> 02:32:52,490
what the team was going to present and

3890
02:32:57,740 --> 02:32:54,810
sought to get a clearance and he went to

3891
02:32:59,300 --> 02:32:57,750
other agencies and I concluded this

3892
02:33:00,890 --> 02:32:59,310
rooms and things I had learned and I got

3893
02:33:03,260 --> 02:33:00,900
a call from a Houston radio station

3894
02:33:04,900 --> 02:33:03,270
that's well-known host there who had

3895
02:33:08,320 --> 02:33:04,910
gotten the Freedom of Information Act

3896
02:33:10,550 --> 02:33:08,330
paper that showed that in fact Hynek was

3897
02:33:12,110 --> 02:33:10,560
and I don't hold against him he just

3898
02:33:13,970 --> 02:33:12,120
wanted to make sure that there were not

3899
02:33:17,660 --> 02:33:13,980
any things they until his community

3900
02:33:19,970 --> 02:33:17,670
won't released but whether the US

3901
02:33:22,970 --> 02:33:19,980
community wanted to release air or not

3902
02:33:24,830 --> 02:33:22,980
when p'tee got back to to France he was

3903
02:33:27,080 --> 02:33:24,840
chief research for International Science

3904
02:33:30,200 --> 02:33:27,090
Center I won't try to say that in French

3905
02:33:33,290 --> 02:33:30,210
he he got in trouble because he released

3906
02:33:35,960 --> 02:33:33,300
some information about how to keep magna

3907
02:33:38,900 --> 02:33:35,970
had a macaron design from exploding that

3908
02:33:40,940 --> 02:33:38,910
and keep down chaos in magna high Nemec

3909
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:40,950
flow that he was not supposed to release

3910
02:33:44,720 --> 02:33:43,050
and he told me he got into some trouble

3911
02:33:46,280 --> 02:33:44,730
but I don't think it had anything to do

3912
02:33:49,070 --> 02:33:46,290
with hynek's having him checked out here

3913
02:33:51,801 --> 02:33:49,080
it was a question I guess we have here

3914
02:33:54,381 --> 02:33:51,811
the question we have gray is whether the

3915
02:33:58,190 --> 02:33:54,391
Air Force or the government in general

3916
02:34:02,330 --> 02:33:58,200
would possibly have influenced what dr.

3917
02:34:04,790 --> 02:34:02,340
Hynek said about UFOs III don't have any

3918
02:34:07,850 --> 02:34:04,800
doubt that it could have but I do not

3919
02:34:10,520 --> 02:34:07,860
believe the Air Force is against people

3920
02:34:12,110 --> 02:34:10,530
researching UFOs and I like the I think

3921
02:34:14,270 --> 02:34:12,120
they like the influence and keep track

3922
02:34:17,000 --> 02:34:14,280
of it influences and important work you

3923
02:34:25,580 --> 02:34:17,010
know we very work we're all unpaid

3924
02:34:27,890 --> 02:34:25,590
assets yep yep well said it's nice to be

3925
02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:27,900
an asset it's supposed to be something

3926
02:34:35,060 --> 02:34:31,530
else okay all right listen we're just

3927
02:34:37,820 --> 02:34:35,070
about out of time let's have you Chris

3928
02:34:40,910 --> 02:34:37,830
Lambright do a little bit of a plug for

3929
02:34:43,460 --> 02:34:40,920
the book oh well excellent thank you it

3930
02:34:45,230 --> 02:34:43,470
is available on amazon.com for anyone

3931
02:34:46,881 --> 02:34:45,240
with a Kindle it's going to be on the

3932
02:34:48,410 --> 02:34:46,891
iBook store here shortly as quick as I

3933
02:34:50,660 --> 02:34:48,420
can get things set up with them but it

3934
02:34:53,600 --> 02:34:50,670
is available in either of course in the

3935
02:34:56,360 --> 02:34:53,610
Kindle format or in as an ePub format

3936
02:34:58,850 --> 02:34:56,370
for those with android tablets or other

3937
02:35:01,551 --> 02:34:58,860
you know epub accessible tablets or even

3938
02:35:04,040 --> 02:35:01,561
PDFs if you want because they're a

3939
02:35:05,060 --> 02:35:04,050
hardcover version not yet you'd be

3940
02:35:07,220 --> 02:35:05,070
surprised in the publishing industry

3941
02:35:08,900 --> 02:35:07,230
especially when it in the last few years

3942
02:35:11,390 --> 02:35:08,910
but when it comes down to the color

3943
02:35:12,680 --> 02:35:11,400
images who've cost was somewhat

3944
02:35:14,870 --> 02:35:12,690
prohibitive I have plans I have a

3945
02:35:16,671 --> 02:35:14,880
printer as soon as I can I'll have some

3946
02:35:19,730 --> 02:35:16,681
print versions out there but the

3947
02:35:21,921 --> 02:35:19,740
necessary in this excuse me necessity of

3948
02:35:24,381 --> 02:35:21,931
the images being in color and the cost

3949
02:35:26,301 --> 02:35:24,391
of color printing or just a storm normal

3950
02:35:27,469 --> 02:35:26,311
independent process but I was also to

3951
02:35:29,300 --> 02:35:27,479
have them in as high

3952
02:35:31,639 --> 02:35:29,310
pollution is I could now let me ask you

3953
02:35:33,019 --> 02:35:31,649
a question quickly here is there a site

3954
02:35:33,800 --> 02:35:33,029
we can go to the check out more of what

3955
02:35:35,599 --> 02:35:33,810
Japs yeah

3956
02:35:36,859 --> 02:35:35,609
yes actually to towards this end I'm

3957
02:35:38,540 --> 02:35:36,869
actually starting I started my own

3958
02:35:40,309 --> 02:35:38,550
little website in a small publishing

3959
02:35:43,429 --> 02:35:40,319
kind of a firm called pecs desk

3960
02:35:45,710 --> 02:35:43,439
publishing dot-com okay we have a link

3961
02:35:48,559 --> 02:35:45,720
by the way to the book at the para cast

3962
02:35:49,790 --> 02:35:48,569
come so we can see more of what you do

3963
02:35:52,790 --> 02:35:49,800
and I guess they could write you from

3964
02:36:01,069 --> 02:35:52,800
the site thanks yes sir okay ray

3965
02:36:04,250 --> 02:36:01,079
Stanford you don't have a psychic yeah

3966
02:36:07,069 --> 02:36:04,260
but we do have a thread at the pair cast

3967
02:36:09,529 --> 02:36:07,079
formed so you know let's have some fun

3968
02:36:11,660 --> 02:36:09,539
with it I you guys thank you so much for

3969
02:36:13,279 --> 02:36:11,670
being on this is one of my favorite

3970
02:36:15,380 --> 02:36:13,289
shows that I've done over the past two

3971
02:36:19,670 --> 02:36:15,390
and a half years thank you so much Chris

3972
02:36:22,580 --> 02:36:19,680
your research is awesome ray you the man

3973
02:36:26,149 --> 02:36:22,590
bro you really are out of everybody in

3974
02:36:30,139 --> 02:36:26,159
this field that I've ever read about or

3975
02:36:32,029 --> 02:36:30,149
encountered and bless as we met you are

3976
02:36:34,910 --> 02:36:32,039
the man and thank you so much for all

3977
02:36:36,290 --> 02:36:34,920
your hard work I never if I have ever

3978
02:36:37,279 --> 02:36:36,300
started with anybody and put my

3979
02:36:39,050 --> 02:36:37,289
reputation on it

3980
02:36:40,429 --> 02:36:39,060
to raise the man so I'm with you and

3981
02:36:42,950 --> 02:36:40,439
Gina I appreciate you having me on and

3982
02:36:43,429 --> 02:36:42,960
I'm hopefully they could get again in

3983
02:36:45,170 --> 02:36:43,439
future

3984
02:36:47,029 --> 02:36:45,180
you sure will it sure look forward

3985
02:36:54,859 --> 02:36:47,039
having you on again banks also race to

3986
02:37:01,409 --> 02:36:58,380
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3987
02:37:04,279 --> 02:37:01,419
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3988
02:37:08,010 --> 02:37:04,289
presentation of making the impossible